Charting a Purposeful Path in Business Development with Becky Hipkiss

00:02 - Mike (Host)
My name's Mike Lander and you're listening to Higgle the B2B Sales Club podcast, where we bring you actionable insights about sales, RFPs, negotiations and difficult procurement discussions from sales leaders, brand leaders and procurement leaders. Please subscribe to get updates when new episodes are released. Becky, thanks ever so much for joining me on higgle the b2b sales of podcast oh hi, it's so lovely to be here.

00:30 – Mike (Host)
I'm quite excited, I'm really looking forward to this. It's great. I met you at the bd100 and you'll talk more about that later on. So for our guests, who are you, what do you do and something unusual about yourself oh god, okay, um, so I'm Becky Hickis.

00:44 - Becky (Guest)
I'm the new business director at we Are Futures. We are a youth marketing agency that brings brands and young people together to create positive impact for the young people and then build advocacy for the brands, and I've been in that role now for about a year and a half. In terms of an unusual fact oh God, I guess I could say so I am a micro-influencer on the side, which is quite exciting. Yeah, I've got a little side hustle of that.

01:10 - Mike (Host)
Not had one of those ever before, so that is different, definitely.

01:13 - Becky (Guest)
What do you?

01:13 - Mike (Host)
influence.

01:14 - Becky (Guest)
Travel, fitness, motivation, lifestyle. It kind of started as a bit of a fitness account and kind of grew from there, so I do a bit of everything really, but yeah, it's really fun. It doesn't mean I get to travel a lot, which is fun.

01:25 - Mike (Host)
Very good and, as part of that, does it generate? I mean cause often I talk to influencers and they're like oh, it's great but doesn't generate any money. But you'd have to say how much, but it doesn't generate some cash. Can you monetize it being an influencer?

01:37 - Becky (Guest)
I feel like I could do if I had the time to really dedicate to it, but I love my nine till five too much. I'm kind of one of those weirdos that just literally does it as a bit of a side thing and enjoys the gifted holidays, which is what I get a lot of. So, um, yeah, I wouldn't say I monetize it that much but gifted holidays sounds pretty good to me.

01:55 - Mike (Host)
That sounds all right it's pretty good.

01:56 - Becky (Guest)
It's a great way to see the world to be fair.

01:59 - Mike (Host)
Oh god, I can hear our son now going dad, dad, what a, what a great idea. Can you get some gifted holidays? I'll be like no, get him a.

02:06 - Becky (Guest)
YouTube set up.

02:07 - Mike (Host)
Exactly, exactly.

02:09 - Becky (Guest)
It's great. It's a lovely community that I've built on there. So, yeah, it's a really nice kind of distraction from the day to day.

02:15 - Mike (Host)
And you're mainly on Instagram. Yeah, so people will find you. So challenge to the audience go off and find Becky on Instagram.

02:23 - Becky (Guest)
Lots of gym selfies in the morning. Often find Becky on Instagram.

02:25 - Mike (Host)
Lots of gym selfies in the morning. Fair enough, Right questions now then. So how and why did you get into business development?

02:38 - Becky (Guest)
So my background is actually client services and I'm that classic kind of person that kind of fell into new business. So I've always worked in purpose-led agencies and I found myself kind of in new business by accident really, after being most, most yeah, exactly everyone I speak to has just been like has just fell into it in some way.

02:51
One of my colleagues called me commercially minded and I was always that person that kind of took over. I worked in quite small agencies before and there's always someone isn't there that does the lead on like the business development stuff, like just the you know chats and stuff and like leads on you know doing the RFPs and things like that. And actually when they kind of said that, it kind of was a bit of a light bulb moment, it was like oh, actually I really enjoy this and actually there's a career in it and so I could, really I could see that I could bring that kind of purpose stuff that I was doing and all the stuff I was doing with the clients but bringing that together with business development and to kind of build my career around it, which is super exciting.

03:24 - Mike (Host)
And I think it has.

03:25 - Becky (Guest)
You know, coming from client services, I think the best new business directors do. In my opinion. Maybe a little bit controversial, might not have had like the official sales training or whatever, but it does mean that you're, you know, set up to really listen to what the clients want and you know understand their motivations and I think as well, like you have like, led and delivered the end product for a client. So it means that when you're negotiating up front and working out what that solution is for a business challenge, you're kind of.

03:50
You've got it from a client perspective, but also from the agency perspective, to make sure you know it's profitable, you know it's going to work and actually you know deliver the KPIs and outcomes that the client needs. So I think it's quite a nice balance.

04:02 - Mike (Host)
I think that's a really critical part actually of being in any kind of like commercial sales, bd negotiation role. If you've not touched the work that you're selling, it's really hard yeah, almost impossible to actually construct a deal that works for both parties.

04:17 - Becky (Guest)
Yeah, definitely no, 100%. I do think that actually, like sometimes I think about my future career, which I've been thinking about a lot actually recently because I won the you mentioned it before I won the BD Rising Star Award this year, which was super exciting and very unexpected, but it has. It's opened a lot of opportunities. Like I'm now, as part of like the prize, I get coached by JFDI and Camilla and Mark. They're amazing, but it has made me think about the future and actually I think I've been quite down on myself before of like oh, I'm kind of stuck in this. Like you know, social impact, purpose-led space I'm only good at new business because of that but actually I'm realizing more and more that the skills that I'm developing every single day you'll be able to pivot to, like other sectors and passions. But, to your point, I think when you've done the work and you understand it and it makes you that specialist, it actually does drive more results. That's what I found. Anyway, I think a lot of the success is from that.

05:10 - Mike (Host)
And in fact anyone out there that's listening. That's in kind of BD in the agency world. Look at the BD100. What Rich McCarty and Jodie Osman have done with that, along with the drum this year, has been amazing, like really amazing to give BD people a bit of the spotlight for a change and a community as well like community exactly so lovely, like going to the bd 100 this year.

05:30 - Becky (Guest)
It was the first time I'd gone and that's where we met, wasn't it? Yeah, and it is like I've met so many people and actually being able to network. And I was talking to rich about it when we did a panel at mad fest a couple of weeks, I saw, yeah, it was fantastic, like again opening up opportunities that didn't even think was possible. Even being on this podcast, I'm like, oh, pinch me. But um, yeah, it's exciting, but it does mean that I did say to richard said I do think that there's an opportunity to build that out further, because actually it's really nice to have that network and community of business development people where you can just like send, check the landscape, like, is it just me when my pipelines dropped out of?

06:05 - Mike (Host)
it's like absolutely, or is it? You know what?

06:08 - Becky (Guest)
I mean, like, is everyone retracting their budgets or is it that you know the lead times are taking six months longer? Like, is it just me or and you can learn? So that panel that they did at the bd 100, I know it was only like what, 40 minutes best 40 minutes of the night, in my opinion, learning this, and I know that they've got really exciting plans to kind of expand that in the future. So watch this space.

06:28 - Mike (Host)
So if I kind of pulled a thread kind of inside you and went back to when you were like kind of I don't know between 12, 13 and like kind of where you are now, can you see any thread that says that's why you're in BD? Is there any common kind of component?

06:44 - Becky (Guest)
I mean which was unprepared by the way, anyone listening, I didn't prepare this. I can see it. I think I've definitely got in terms of like personality traits because at the end of the day, I do think business development is largely down to having a personality in which you can build relationships Like a hundred percent. I can totally see that trajectory.

07:04 - Mike (Host)
It's certainly necessary. Not sufficient, but it's necessary.

07:07 - Becky (Guest)
It's necessary and I think I can totally see how I've kind of landed in this spot. I've always been very ambitious, not just for myself but for whoever I'm working for. I kind of buy into that. I don't think I would be very good as a self-employed person. If I'm honest. I actually genuinely buy into working for an agency, which is most of my. Most of my career has been around agencies and kind of having that mindset like we're all in this together, like we've got all these targets to get, we're doing these amazing things for clients. So I can kind of see that and I've often been called tenacious and I can definitely see that kind of personality trait kind of coming through in terms of social impact. Yes, so back 12 13, I would have told you I was going to be a teacher and that was very much the plan. Actually I had a PGC lined up and everything for university yeah, and then I fell into a social impact agency.

07:55
I saw the advert when I graduated. What didn't want to leave London and head back home to Manchester for a PGC and thought you know what, let's give it a try. I'll'll defer for a year. And I've never left the sector. So yeah, I can, kind of I can see it. It doesn't surprise me at all, but I do find it quite funny. Like a lot of people say to me, like you're so organized, you're so like in your routine, you like to be in control, yet You've literally chosen a career where actually a lot of it can be outside of your control.

08:22 - Mike (Host)
Completely outside your control.

08:23 - Becky (Guest)
Yes.

08:24 - Mike (Host)
So it does.

08:25 - Becky (Guest)
Yes, we have a rollercoaster of emotions in the new business team at we Are Futures. I'm not going to lie.

08:30 - Mike (Host)
Brilliant. So when people say to you, you've got a really commercial mindset, let's get back to that for a second, yeah, what do you think that means and why is it so important?

08:38 - Becky (Guest)
I think being commercially minded to me means like being able to tie whatever someone's doing at an agency whatever your purpose is.

08:45
So for me, obviously, it's very much like social impact, or delivering positive impact for young people mostly, and linking that to the business value, both for your clients but also for the agency itself, and being able to communicate that really clearly and just kind of see, I think a lot of agencies within the impact space actually undersell themselves and I know that we are futures.

09:06
We've made a real, especially since I joined last year. We've made a real shift away from that in order to kind of put the spotlight on actually how purpose and investing in purpose as a client can drive profit, because at the end of the day, it drives brand advocacy, it drives brand warmth, like we've got all this stuff I mean't tell you a million stats and it's very much like offering that clear proposition of like we'll help you connect with future consumers and create that measurable positive change in order for you to tell that story to your existing consumers or even current consumers. Actually, we're doing a lot of work now like we think about young people as like the next generation, but actually young people have that pester power and the immediate families around them that can generate kind of brand advocates immediately like fans of brands immediately. What's pester power? Pester power.

09:51
You know what I actually hate great phrase it's a great phrase but I actually hate it. It's proper like buzzword in marketing, but essentially there's lots of research that shows I mean anyone that's got children. I do not have children spoiler but I know a lot of people that do, and people will say, like you know, a lot of people that do.

10:04
And people will say, like you know, if their child comes home from school and says that they've done an amazing thing with um like a brand, or they've, you know, recycled some batteries, for instance, they are able to kind of pass that behavior change on, I mean, or you could do it as remember the argos catalog when you used to say I do. Indeed, that is pester power, that is pester power. I've seen an advert on TV.

10:23 - Mike (Host)
Near Christmas, it's like I want this Exactly.

10:26 - Becky (Guest)
So, yeah, I think that kind of commercial kind of mindset is just making sure. For me it's not just trying to go to a marketing director and sell them purpose and be like this is a really worthy thing that you could do. You know what I mean. I can tell you a really nice story, because actually that's not what they need right now, not in this climate. They want performance so we can create all that purpose, fabulous stuff. That maybe means that most of the team get out of bed in the morning and actually want to do the job, but we lead with impact metrics and brand value and insight and make sure that that emotional side is brought to life through the storytelling. So it is that kind of like win-win.

11:01 - Mike (Host)
So, yeah, that's what I would say I interpret that I mean, bear in mind I'm an ex kind of procurement guy, so I think about things in a very rational way.

11:08 - Becky (Guest)
Yeah, of course.

11:08 - Mike (Host)
But if I was meeting you and talking about you know I've talked to the CMO, we've got a budget, we're going to run some campaigns the fact that you can talk to me about, okay, so what business challenge so bluntly? What business problem are you trying trying to solve? What are your targets, what's the outcome you're looking for? And then I can talk to you about the scope and how your fees are structured and then I can work out what was an ROI story, because, bear in mind, I've got to go and see the CFO and go right, spoke to our CMO. These are the business objectives we've got Going to run a campaign.

11:36
It's going to cost half a million. We're looking for, obviously, sales uplift or brand advocacy. It's going to lead into sales uplift over a certain period of time. I can see how the budget versus the investment we're going to make in the agency is going to deliver a return. I've got to be able to have a really simple story to someone who basically works 14 hours a day trying to keep all the numbers working for them to go okay.

12:01
Yeah exactly If the CMO says yes and I say yes and the CFO says yes, are we aligned? Yeah, okay.

12:07 - Becky (Guest)
Yeah, exactly, and that is the difficult bit actually is making it simple and also kind of getting people to buy into using that sounds wrong, using young people, but like embracing young people as a channel to reach families and consumers and doing it that way Because actually it is the win-win right.

12:25
Like you know, I would say, like 10 years ago, csr was so kind of pivotal in a business strategy. Like you know, you had to be seen to be doing good and obviously the landscape has changed quite a bit over the last couple of years and we can literally see things rolling back, like D&I initiatives and things like that. Hopefully that stays across the pond and doesn't come over here, but we can literally see a shift, especially with some of our global clients like them being a little bit more reticent with their budgets of like, oh, we do need to prove, to your point, like we need to be able to go to the CFO and prove that there's this, like you know, immediate return on investment, and so I think, yeah, that's been kind of the challenge for us over the last year is, to your point, like crystallizing that proposition and making it so we can literally prove that that impact does work, yeah, and so interesting.

13:08 - Mike (Host)
the thing that you haven't mentioned, but it's kind of implicit, is about risk. As a buyer, you know, and also talking with the CFO, risk is always on our mind because clearly you would be brilliant at selling us the story and the logic, but we've got to go. Yeah, but where are the risks in this? So I think, being commercially minded, you have to also talk about where the risks are and how you mitigate those risks. Would that resonate?

13:29 - Becky (Guest)
Yeah, I think so, and also, I guess, being quite open with them that most of our programs and clients that we work with, we're really lucky to work with some amazing like kind of big corporate clients that really trust us and have stuck with us for quite a few years. And I think it's having that kind of trust in us to take a leap into something that is a little bit different for a marketing department and actually know that our kind of output and the way we kind of approach something to your point is always looking at that business charge and also adapting. And I think one thing that really sticks in my mind is I feel like the risk is mitigated more because actually we include young people and their influences as part of the co-creation of whatever we do that's just part and parcel of our kind of approach strategy like it's baked in.

14:12
I know co-creation is a bit of a buzzword, but it's baked in. So it's things like that where I think we can kind of tell that story and get people on side to understand that we are making sure that this is as solid as possible and as you go through, because at the end of the day stuff like this purpose stuff has to be a longer term investment. It can't be tokenistic, it can't be a flash in the pan. It has to be that you commit to something, you see it through and then we can literally measure that impact and show you. But to your point, that is a bit of a harder sell. So we just make sure that we have those kind of touch points in at all points to be able to kind of evolve and adapt as we kind of get the data in, if that makes sense.

14:47 - Mike (Host)
Because the market has definitely shifted. There is more focus from what I can see by brands on the performance element, and that's been going on for a few years now.

14:56 - Becky (Guest)
Yeah, 100%, especially to kind of, you know, get those budgets and I mean we're seeing that even on, I'm sure, like you've had other guests say this, even in terms of lead times. I feel like there's been a bit of a shift in my opinion of agencies having to actually act as a bit of a having to step into that role of helping that business case, so actually help, like working with the teams to build that business case, which you know often isn't actually paid at that point because you're kind of still in a proposal pitch phase. Do you know what I mean? So it is, yeah, it's been a really interesting shift actually, because I think a lot of marketing teams, csr teams, are feeling a little bit frustrated by it as well, because they're also being judged on performance quite immediately. So trying to balance that with doing some good because, at the end of the day, is what people like to go to work for right, when they, you know, it's not just selling things, it's also, you know, creating a difference.

15:48 - Mike (Host)
But maybe I would say this but I think if you get the opportunity in any kind of process where we're buying something, some services from you, if you get the chance to truly co-create it with me, you're creating the business case that supports the investment that we take to the board and get signed off. The position that you're in then is very unusual. It's like a partner. It is a partner. It's a partner if you're sharing some of the risk, so like performance-based pay. I think it's a very interesting topic, especially in this area that you work in because true partners. Obviously, if I don't succeed financially, then neither should you. If I do, then you should share in the benefit. But also, I think if you've managed to co-create that business case, it's gone to the board, it's been signed off. Before it gets signed off, obviously, the question is well, who else are we talking to? What else are we compared? It's pretty difficult to compare once we've co-created it. It's possible, but it's much harder.

16:34 - Becky (Guest)
Yeah, and I think that's coming from your procurement it is, and it's interesting like from a new business perspective I would say only 30% of our new business last year came from like a procurement tender situation. More and more, I think, because we are quite niche or, like you know, we're a bit emerging. You know we're a little bit out there. We often partner with other agencies, for instance, to be an activation side of it. Actually, more and more is like direct outreach and then, to your point, we then get embedded into the team. So we're doing that right now actually with a prospect and we're about eight weeks into the process like literally working with them to pull together this business case and proposal to present to the board. So we've got the marketing team by and it's now kind of presenting ready to get the budgets and stuff. And, to your point, yeah, it does put us in quite an unusual position because it's not competitive.

17:21 - Mike (Host)
No, and although the board might say I don't know what that kind of budget is, but let's say it's half a million, the board's going to say we must go to market on this. It's a big amount of money. Interestingly it depends on, yeah, a lot of corporates don't really do.

17:34 - Becky (Guest)
Again, it depends on the corporate, but at the moment we're finding that that's not actually the case. It's very unusual for that to happen and which is why I much prefer this way, so I talked a bit about it on the mad fest panel. Actually, one of the questions was about, like you know, your approach to new business, whatever, and I maybe this is, you know, kind of my opinion, but I totally get.

17:51 - Mike (Host)
Your opinions are good, becky because'm learning as I go. It's the life that you lead, so your opinions are perfectly valid based upon your evidence base.

18:00 - Becky (Guest)
I just think with kind of positive impact stuff and what we do at we Are Futures, I think actually the tactical quality outreach, where we have literally identified a problem or a gap in a brand or a corporate and we go out to them and show them that gap and say where we could fill it. They go out to them and show them that gap and say where we could fill it. They're always the most successful and, yes, it takes longer, yes, it's a bit more time consuming. We've got to do the research beforehand, we've got to really understand the client, but they're so much more fruitful when they like come off rather than just kind of going out willy-nilly to outreach.

18:30
obviously there's a place for like mailers and kind of you know, ensuring that you're kind of doing all the touch points and stuff. But again, I would say 60% of our new business last year was like quality outreach, where a lot of the team actually had identified different gaps. And then we've gone after that way, the one that we're talking to now, which I was talking about before, where we're kind of working with them on a business case. That was exactly that.

18:51 - Mike (Host)
So just out of interest, how big are you as an agency?

19:00 - Becky (Guest)
How many people? Roughly so, there's about 80 of us across two offices in London and Edinburgh. We've grown quite quickly and now I think we're kind of at a nice mid-size, Nice size yeah, nice size. You know got all the different teams, we all work together. We've obviously had that kind of initial oh need to be a bit more efficient as we've grown so quick, but I think we're in a really good place now structurally.

19:12 - Mike (Host)
Because I'd be staggered if RFPs were a good route for you to win business.

19:16 - Becky (Guest)
Very rare. The ones that we do go for are usually government. I'm very focused on educational behaviour change, so it's like a department for education one Do you know what I mean Like some resources or like learning, like kind of our heritage area, where we know we can just do that. It's our bread and butter.

19:32 - Mike (Host)
It's public sector money. So you've got no choice. You have to go through the procurement process.

19:36 - Becky (Guest)
Exactly, and often for those it won't be just us going for it. We often go as a like delivery body or a consortium.

19:42 - Mike (Host)
Yeah you'd be a consortium, yeah.

19:43 - Becky (Guest)
Yeah, on that side. But yeah, I completely agree with you. It's definitely much more direct.

19:48 - Mike (Host)
So any agency leaders listening, if you're under 100 people and you think RFPs in the commercial sector are a great way of building your business, absolutely not. I would say no, Having run a lot myself you may have made it work, but I'd be surprised.

20:01 - Becky (Guest)
I think the only way that would happen is if we've explored the intermediary route. And again, I think with our size it would be us. And because we are a little bit niche, when we have spoke to intermediaries they have been a bit like oh let me just remember what you do, and when something comes up and we need you to do a certain part of that brief, because you know these are like million pound briefs, right, like massive, massive, massive briefs, then we'll kind of bring you in.

20:24
So yeah, it's very, very, very unusual, I'll be honest, just to kind of it come together. Often we're brought in as a separate piece.

20:30 - Mike (Host)
So question we didn't really prepare, but they're always the best.

20:35
It does link to the last one, kind of. So we'll do the last question, but I'll link in a bit what I was going to talk about. So what's your approach to BD as an agency? Talk to us about the importance of core and extended team in BD, but what I want to kind of focus on here is what does every agency, professional services tech firm talk about? It's like well, how do I get net new, how do I find new clients, net new logos and I think this question talks to that is that it's all very well having an ICP and working out what the pain points are. You've done some research, but someone's got to actually engage with that stakeholder that we've identified as being the CMO in this business has got this problem and now someone's got to engage with them. How does that process work? Do you email, do you phone? Do you meet them at a conference? Do you try and organize a breakfast? What do you do that gets to meeting that stakeholder that acquires, in the end, net new business.

21:29 - Becky (Guest)
No, totally get that. I think we are futures. I mean, I think we think a lot about new businesses look, you know, we often say, like you know, new business is always tied to look, whatever. But I actually think that's really lazy thinking and it is completely lazy.

21:46
I'm a bugger for it. I will literally say, oh god, we were dead lucky with that. No, no, we worked really hard for that. And I think the key for us is we're really, really intentional so we don't just blast out creds or, like I was saying before, like outreach emails and, you know, hope that something sticks. It is very much researching the brand, thinking about how young people show up in their strategy. So we've got to your point.

22:05
When we're looking at our new business strategy for the year, we have kind of pillars for want of a better word or kind of like walk streams, like kind of audience groups that's probably the better word, audience groups that we've kind of identified.

22:15
So maybe brands with a reputation problem, brands that aren't showing up for families and young people, or brands that are and we can amplify that even more through our networks and things like that. So really thinking about like identifying those and then going after them. To your point about how we do that we're quite unusual as an agency, which I hadn't realized until I spoke to you, because obviously it needs the BD world, but I didn't realize that most agencies don't actually have a dedicated outreach team. Obviously they'll have a new business director, aka me, a new business manager or they'll outsource that, but have some sort of you know person. What's unusual about us is, yes, we're only 80. But actually we've got quite a big new business team for the size and proportions. There's four of us and two of those are a focused resource, just on outreach.

23:01 - Mike (Host)
Oh, talk to me about that. How does that work?

23:03 - Becky (Guest)
So it's amazing, it's genius yeah, it's honestly and it sounds so. Having gone from a couple of agencies now to this and seeing how it works, it is so key because I think we've tried it before where we've like outsourced it to different agencies and stuff, but at the end of the day, especially when you are Let like, outsourced it to different agencies and stuff, but at the end of the day, especially, let me guess utterly- utterly useless.

23:24
Yeah, and it's because they can't get under the skin, because I think it's different if you're like it's not their fault. No, not their fault at all, and I think it's different if they're like you're quite a simple I know creative agency, do you know what I mean? Like they kind of get what you do. I mean.

23:35 - Mike (Host)
I know one that does a very different approach.

23:38 - Becky (Guest)
That's brilliant, that's run by em Thwaite, but that's a very different proposition I've worked with her before she yeah, she worked at we Are Futures for a little bit last year before they hired me.

23:47 - Mike (Host)
There was a bit of an interim of no, yeah, emma's great content-based, thought leadership based yeah you know, very focused, targeted outreach yeah, no, she is fantastic and she kind of set the foundations up for the strategy we're following actually. So yeah, brilliant props to her, so shout out to Emma, shout out to Emma.

24:02 - Becky (Guest)
We Shout out to Emma. We miss you. But, yeah, that focused resource of outreach does make that huge difference because it means that actually, when I'm looking at the team and who's focusing on what, I've got a person that's very much focused on like ensuring that we have a marketing output in order to give to those you know, outreach people, to kind of fuel it.

24:19 - Mike (Host)
And tell me that's all personalized. The outreach is personalized.

24:27 - Becky (Guest)
Super personalized. So personalized, thank God for that. Yeah, so we've got a target list. We obviously use databases and stuff to be able to get kind of the email addresses. The majority is through email. I would say we follow up through LinkedIn. We sometimes call, but I think I mean that's a controversial subject anyway. That was a whole thing at my festival.

24:41 - Mike (Host)
Oh no, they're good controversial subjects. They're brilliant.

24:43 - Becky (Guest)
Yes, yes, yes yes, I'm not a huge fan of calling personally unless you've spoken to them a couple of times.

24:49 - Mike (Host)
I don't think in 2025, it doesn't work like it used to.

24:54 - Becky (Guest)
No, 100%. I know I never answer a call.

24:56 - Mike (Host)
I do not answer my phone. I don't use that as a people to do so.

24:59 - Becky (Guest)
Yeah, I think targeting is so important. It means that when I look at the team, like I say, like I've got two people on the outreach. They've kind of they're working together super closely to make sure that they're not overlapping. Everything's super personal. They've got time then to research they also. These people have been with us for a long time in the business. They remember I can literally ask one of them like, oh, do you remember when we like reached out to such and such? They're like, oh yeah, we did that three years ago actually. No, she's now changed, she was on maternity like they just have that knowledge and that is so. Oh, honestly, it's invaluable. So then I've kind of got one person in the team feeding them all that kind of to your point, like the thought leadership, like the marketing content, what, how we're kind of articulating our propositions in order to be able to personalize it and get it out, ensuring we've got those touch points. And then actually it leaves me free-ish to actually work on the important stuff, which is the broader new business strategy, and actually answering, luckily, the meetings that are coming in and the RFPs not RFPs, but, like you know, the request for like briefs and like all that sort of stuff. So it's just it's worked really really well.

26:00
And I think the other thing we've introduced and I know it sounds dead cliche, I think someone else made it up, but I use it all the time is ensuring that the outreach doesn't sit in silo. So we've created this whole new biz is everyone's biz culture. So that was something that I brought in. I know it's a thing, but like I literally plastered it on every single PowerPoint deck when I first joined at we Are Futures had like little high school musical gifts. If you know the reference, you'll understand we're all in this together and people across the agency became really invested in it, from like creative to strategy. And it's just changed the energy. I think energy is so important when it comes to new business. I don't know whether you've got the vibe just from over the screen, but I've got quite a lot of energy. You've got a lot of energy.

26:40 - Mike (Host)
I've got a lot of energy.

26:40 - Becky (Guest)
That's a good thing, becky. Yeah, I'm very positive. If we lose a pitch or we lose a tender or someone ghosts me, I'm allowed. I've always said to the team we're allowed one day where we're sad about it. One night even the next day, you just get conversation open in the right way, especially for something like us, where we've literally just spent like what? 10 minutes talking about building that business case. That stuff takes time.

27:12 - Mike (Host)
It does and it might not be to the next budget year.

27:14 - Becky (Guest)
You might find I mean like now.

27:15 - Mike (Host)
I call now selling season. You know you're preparing people for their budgets so that when they get to September, october, you're in their mind, you're in their budget. If that gets approved, q1, you've got something.

27:27 - Becky (Guest)
No, 100%, and I think that is what I've kind of wanted to channel across the agency really that like new business feels like collaborative, it feels exciting and like actually part of the agency's identity, so like really getting people bought into, because one of the things I love about working at agencies is because I'm so bought into the growth, like I feel like I'm part of this massive team of like growing it and making this big difference, and I want everyone else to feel like that. So again, I mean John, our outreach person. Shout out to John. We love him.

27:55
He will definitely listen to this um, he always is messaging people, being like guys. Has anyone spotted anything in the like news this week? Has anyone got any contacts or have you know spotted a gap, especially because we've got like education and learning teams within the business that you know keep their ears on the ground in terms of what educators are looking for or what young people are like, what challenges they're up against, and again, so many meetings and new biz opportunities come out of that two. Last year Kate like became two big big, one of our two biggest briefs and like kind of went on to win and that was just all from like. I think one was from um strategy and one was a designer. So, yeah, it's definitely. I think that is something that I um think we do a little bit differently is kind of bring it all together and have that dedicated outreach resources. Uh, if you can afford it, it's worth it.

28:41 - Mike (Host)
So we're at time, at time. I'm going to draw it together with one last question, which is definitely not prepared, which is so anyone listening that maybe is kind of like early in their agency career or thinking about agencies. Why would they get into new business? Why is new business development an area that's really interesting and a great, great longer term career?

29:02 - Becky (Guest)
I personally think it is one of the most exciting kind of periods of my career so far and you know I'm not saying it's wrong to get straight into it. I can totally see that there's a value for kind of going through sales and, you know, kind of actively pursuing it. But I do think that there's real value in exploring the client services thing first and then naturally especially if you're in a small agency naturally putting your hand up and going. You know what I really want to lead on some new business or spot those opportunities and I think you will naturally gravitate towards it. But I just think it's so much fun, like no day is ever the same and you get such a.

29:36
One thing I really enjoy about it is you have such a role within the agency, quite a senior role of growing and like really being part of those business strategy conversations. That's what I love. I love it when I'm invited into commercial board to sit with like the CFO and like the CEO and the MD, and we're all sat there and they're looking at me and they're going right, becky, how are you going to get your targets this year? And it just elevates. Do you know what I mean? It honestly elevates you and I think it's just because I've been put in a lot of different not challenging, but different situations where I've had to really step up and push myself out of my comfort zone. I feel like your career accelerates so quickly within business development if you lean yourself in enough.

30:12 - Mike (Host)
So I think it's a great answer. I think if you want to be a business leader, you have to have been in business development.

30:18 - Becky (Guest)
There is no choice 100%, or at least have an understanding and an appreciation and an involvement in it. It might not be that you're a new business director but, like half my client partners on senior management team are working on these tenders and pitches with me. Yeah. You've got to have sold something, yeah, 100%, and they need to understand it as well, like I was saying, that kind of like win-win. So yeah, I think, and also it's great because you get to go on a lot of business lunches and expense it.

30:45 - Mike (Host)
Yay, and on that note, becky, fantastic Becky, it's been a real pleasure.

30:48 - Becky (Guest)
Thank you ever so much for joining me. Thank you so much.

30:50 - Mike (Host)
That was so much fun, thank you. Where can people find out more about you On?

30:52 - Becky (Guest)
LinkedIn, yay, and on Instagram, yeah, oh God, yeah, try and find me. That's your little task.

31:09 - Mike (Host)
You know what, when I get an influx of like 10 followers, I'm like oh, here they all are from Mike. Thank you thanks ever so much for joining me. Oh, thank you thanks for listening to Higgle the B2B sales club podcast series with your host, mike Lander. Please subscribe so that you'll catch all the next episodes.