Innovative Approaches for Strengthening Client Relationships with Remeny Armitage Royle

Mike (00:00.994)
Remeny . Welcome to Higgle, the B2B sales for podcast. Thanks for joining us today.

Remeny (00:04.854)
Good. Yeah.

Remeny (00:20.438)
Thanks so much for having me.

Mike (00:22.05)
I'm looking forward to this because we had a pre -discussion about a lot of topics about client relationships and about how to maintain those relationships, how to maintain the longevity of client relationship, which is obviously what you kind of specialize in. But just give the audience a bit of background about who you are, what you do, and also something unusual about yourself.

Remeny (00:44.79)
Okay, well again, thanks for having me. So who am I? I am Remini Armitage. I'm the founder of Brilliant and Human. Essentially, I help mainly agencies to understand what their clients really think about them. And using that insight, I help open up new opportunities, revenue opportunities, help the businesses to improve and grow off the back of what their clients actually want without agencies making assumptions about what they think or want. And I, so...

how I got into doing this. I've worked with a in -house in agencies for over 20 years, mainly in marketing and biz dev and worked through the ranks and set up Brilliant and Human seven years ago and have been working with agencies ever since to kind of identify those key issues that clients may have. And then something interesting about myself, I have time traveled.

I have, well sort of, I've lived and worked back in 1760 and 1882. I know that sounds really random. I worked in the Henry Ford Museum in Detroit, because I grew up in America. I used to live and do everything they did in both 1760 and 1880, telling the public about

Mike (01:44.322)
okay.

Mike (01:58.786)
Brilliant!

Remeny (02:14.198)
life back then and then I've more recently also was part of a group called the Man of Mob where I actually lived and did everything they did in 1740. So yes, so I do love a bit of history as well as the world of digital and tech so contradictory yeah. Thank you.

Mike (02:23.074)
Wow.

Mike (02:28.258)
Fantastic. Very interesting. So we've got a few things we're going to talk through. But just first of all, it's now the 12th of June, 2024. What's your view of where the market is currently? Because you work like I do with independent agencies.

Remeny (02:45.11)
Yeah, it's been tough. It's a tough world we're living in right now. I think I'm currently doing a report actually where I'm interviewing agency owners and comparing it to getting an understanding of what agency owners think about client engagement, what they're seeing in the market and comparing it to what clients actually think. And the interviews I've been having have been fascinating, pulling up some really interesting insight into the market. And I think...

one of the big key issues that agencies seem to be finding are massive problems with decisions from their potential clients, holding back on budgets, things are taking four times, five times longer than they normally would. I mean, people have been, yeah, really, really struggling recently and then equally trying to get commitment from existing clients, people being ghosted. I mean, it's not, it doesn't feel like a, a, a

particularly happy place. Some people seem to be doing really well but unfortunately I think a lot of the independent agencies are struggling at the moment.

Mike (03:53.89)
Definitely. And yeah, I'm seeing the same thing for sure. But what's interesting, I did some research the week as well. It looks like market demand overall for marketing services globally is broadly kind of like some say flat, some say up, but it certainly isn't down massively. Network agencies are all growing. So they've all done really well. And of course we've got the development of AI technologies that are now client facing, not just internal.

Remeny (04:04.79)
Mm.

Remeny (04:10.614)
Mmm.

Mike (04:21.378)
allowing bigger agencies to encroach on smaller agencies territory. So I think all of that is impacting the Indies. And also so is on the buy side, I know being an ex procurement director, you know, in these times of uncertainty, and certainly in the UK, we've got lots of uncertainty at the moment, political and economic. The CFOs and the CPOs are in charge of the purse strings, and they're holding back on spend.

Remeny (04:25.718)
Yes.

Remeny (04:30.134)
Mm.

Mike (04:50.658)
and they're delaying spend. And that's just, that's happened in every kind of recession I've been through. So it will be tough, tougher, much tougher for independent agencies, I think in this market.

Remeny (04:58.006)
Yes.

Remeny (05:03.926)
Yeah, absolutely. And I think, I mean, the, the future proofing is absolutely critical now and, you know, not making assumptions about what your clients want, but talking to your clients is more important than ever. And also with the world of, you know, post COVID, I think that the fact that so many agencies are hybrid or working from home, you know, that's fine on one level, but I think for the, for the next generation of agency people, that could be a problem. And when you've got.

AI kind of encroaching on the businesses and then you've got the inexperienced juniors who aren't learning from the experienced members of the teams. We've got a real problem over the coming years and then equally the younger generation are, if they're not learning from the more senior people, how are they going to be the next generation? How successful will they be? And

Mike (05:59.394)
Exactly.

Remeny (06:02.23)
I was speaking to an agency owner yesterday and he was saying that they demand the juniors have to live locally, they have to come into the office every day. And I think we're going to see more of that less hybrid, I suspect.

Mike (06:18.146)
Interesting. I mean, I know if I reflect on my days back in the late nineties, back at KPMG, when I was a kind of consultant working there, how did I learn? I learned from partners. I learned from more senior consultants, from directors. I learned on the job in person with them on client site or in the office. And that was invaluable to see how a partner would shape an issue and sell a job. I couldn't have learned that remotely.

Remeny (06:48.598)
No. Yeah. And I think people come up with ideas of, you know, having it so they have a few days when you're in the office and engaging with other people. But actually, you've got to engage with the right people and listen to what's happening. And I think that that, you know, of course, that's not necessarily impacting the economy and what's going on today. I think there's just a lot of uncertainty, but I think, you know, it probably does add to it. And I think that's a it's a concern for.

Mike (06:48.994)
It wouldn't be possible.

Mike (07:01.826)
Mm.

Remeny (07:17.686)
the future and I think we need to be having more conversations with everyone in order to open the doors of commerce because otherwise you know things are just going to continue to stall.

Mike (07:26.946)
Exactly.

Mike (07:31.042)
So let's kind of move into the questions that we talked about before the recording. So firstly, why is it critical to get an independent perspective on how clients feel about an agency's relationship with them? And kind of, you know, what are the typical triggers or reasons that an agency invites you in to talk to their clients?

Remeny (07:52.854)
Well, I mean, the most, I think the biggest benefit of having an independent person speaking to people's clients is because the clients can feel a lot more comfortable with sharing really honest feedback and, you know, getting that impartial feedback. I don't react to negative feedback or even really positive feedback. I'm just kind of, I'm there to listen and learn and then feedback to my clients. And I think that,

I think sometimes people are resistant to asking questions that might cause conflict. I think it can make people, you know, if you're the agent, if you're the client and you're afraid of saying, well, actually I don't like X, it could cause, you know, issues with your relationship. So it's probably easier just to find a new agency. And so actually getting that kind of, that unbiased impartial feedback.

Mike (08:44.706)
Mm -hmm.

Remeny (08:51.414)
which is what I get, can really help an agency ask questions that aren't always easy to have. And equally, a lot of people, especially the more junior people, find it very, very difficult to ask about new work or come up with ideas that might sound salesy. And often my questions, you know, it's around asking about, you know, improvements and in process, but also it's about uncovering...

opportunities for the agency that isn't salesy. Now I've got 20 years of experience in sales, so I'm good at it, but it's about asking in a way that doesn't sound salesy and doesn't put the client on the back foot. And, you know, often I'll uncover new services or products that the client is asking for. And when you start hearing that from all your clients, you can act on it, or you might have a new service that you're thinking of delivering or...

you're beginning to put together and by speaking to your clients, you can get that verification that actually that's the right thing to be doing. Don't waste your time or money on developing things that you haven't had the proof from. And, you know, by understanding what people's clients think about them, why they love them, why they buy from them, you can use that in your marketing. And, and I think, I mean, part of the problem as well, I feel that...

having worked in -house in agencies for so many years, the team was always so focused on the one project and doing their one, you know, their actual work, that going beyond that and thinking about their relationship beyond the project or, you know, or during it and getting that feedback can, doesn't seem like a priority. It's just about that project.

So it's important to make sure you're developing those relationships and proactively processing and putting processes in place so that you are speaking to your clients and whether you do it yourself or you get someone independent to do it, it's important to make sure that that is happening. And so, yeah, it's kind of getting that kind of difficult information from your clients that they might not want to share to your face. So.

Mike (11:01.954)
And what are the triggers? So what do you find are the triggers when an agency leader would go or an account director might go? Actually, we need to get someone like Remini in. So what's happening in that? What signals are the agency seeing which start to make them feel like we need to get an independent view?

Remeny (11:12.278)
Mm -hmm.

Remeny (11:20.982)
There's a number of reasons people come to me. It's often because they're losing clients and they don't know why they're struggling to get their retainers renewed. It might be that cash flow is a problem and actually they want to find out how they can open up those services or revenue opportunities. But like I said, they're afraid of sounding salesy. So I'm almost like a Trojan horse going in to help find those opportunities. They might be losing pitches.

I do post -pitch interviews as well, so finding out why people are losing, then you can then fix that. But then also, again, I mentioned before, is the marketing point is with agencies, as we know, it's very difficult to differentiate yourself. But if you understand why your ideal clients are buying from you, understanding the words they use to describe what you do or how you do it or where they go, and you can then feed that into your own marketing and your new business.

and opening up those, you know, people might be struggling again, that thing that can be hideous for people to ask for as referrals or, you know, testimonials. And again, that's what I get. I get a lot of that for people when I'm interviewing them. And then other things, you know, it might be they're coming to me because they're doing, they're going through the B Corp process. And, you know, by interviewing your clients, getting that verification that your clients are happy and engaged, that helps with your B Corp process.

And equally things like &A, you know, people thinking of going down that route by proving you've got happy clients who are going to stay loyal. That is going to be very appealing to investors. And so there's lots of different reasons that people come to me.

Mike (13:04.226)
Very good. So moving on to kind of the second point, which is around what practical things should agencies be doing to maintain high quality, long lasting relationships with their existing clients? And what are the kind of themes broadly that you found across all the clients that you, all the agencies you've worked with?

Remeny (13:24.214)
Well, I think for me, my business called Brilliant in Human, it's about being human. It's about engaging with your clients in a human and engaging way and building those really human relationship led relations, not being transactional. It's not about getting the next job. It's about building those real relationships and taking the time to listen to your clients and understanding their needs and wants and...

as individuals, as well as part of a team or a department. And, you know, it's, it's, but being proactive about it. And one of the complaints clients often complain about is that lack of productivity and understanding. So take the time to listen to your clients and, but put those, you need to put those into your processes sometimes. Some people are naturally good at that, but by, you know, putting in times that you're going to be speaking to your clients and building those relationships, taking them out lunch, you know,

if you're remote or you can't get there, just making sure you're having real conversations with them.

Mike (14:25.986)
So I was gonna say actually, have you found about that remote working? So I don't know if there's any evidence around this. Building relationships remotely is really hard. Have you seen any kind of like trends whereby as we've moved towards a more blended stroke remote working approach that relationships are weakening and therefore churn is increasing just out of interest.

Remeny (14:30.326)
Mm.

Remeny (14:36.566)
Hmm.

Remeny (14:51.478)
It's a really interesting one. And actually it's one thing that's been coming out of the report I've been doing. When talking about communication, the agencies I've been talking to generally are saying that they think their communication with clients is pretty good. The client interviews, not so much. It's always one of the things that clients complain about. But one of the things that has been coming out of the interviews with the agency owners is although they're saying they're fine on the client side, it's internally.

is their communication with their internal teams and especially their junior and that the whole passing things on and handover of someone's offer a day is kind of how that's communicated and the issues that that can cause can have an impact on how you're engaging with your clients. And so, yeah, so it's actually, it's really interesting because I think it's, you've got to remember that all this, you know, that kind of listening.

Mike (15:35.33)
Yes.

Remeny (15:46.166)
It can't just be with your clients. You've got to make sure your teams are happy and you're listening to your teams and you're getting that insight from your teams. Cause if you've got unhappy teams, as we know, we're going to have unhappy clients. And so, you know, making sure you look at your human relationships within your business is really, really important.

Mike (16:01.41)
And we know also, I mean, I know from like you for many, many years of working with clients in a consultancy basis. I know if my clients around the corner and I can start to sense something's not right, I can arrange to drop in, have a coffee, have a face -to -face sit down in a more relaxed environment and then cover all sorts of things. And I can solve what might become a problem really quickly because I've had that face -to -face time.

Remeny (16:18.358)
Mm.

Remeny (16:29.002)
Yes.

Mike (16:31.202)
If we don't have the chance to do that, it's much harder to do it over Zoom. It's just, it's more difficult. Not impossible, but it's just more difficult.

Remeny (16:37.878)
Mmm.

Yep. Yeah. And that's why you need to be putting the processes in to make sure you are engaging with them, even if it is over Zoom. But I also think that it's really important to, it might be less, but to try and make sure you're engaging with your clients and bringing them value that's not just about the project in person when you can. And so, but putting that proactively into your...

processes that you are going to be speaking to your clients or you're going to be getting people together. Often clients say to me that they're really interested in what their agencies, other clients are doing and having those events where they're all communicating and sharing can be hugely valuable to them. And, you know, so it's, it's, it's sharing knowledge and sharing value and where you can, but I think, you know, the remote thing is an issue. but I think that there are ways to make sure you're nurturing the relationships, but.

Again, I think, you know, the more junior people can find that quite difficult as well because they're not used to it. And, you know, it's fine for us because we've been doing it for so long. But.

Mike (17:44.802)
It reminds me of the also the kind of the emotional credit bank. You know, if I have a relationship with my counterparty and I've built that relationship over time, if there's a small problem somewhere, then so I've built credits in the emotional bank. If there's a small problem, as long as I fix it, so I see it, I fix it and we move on. Most of my counterparties go, that's okay, that's fine. Everyone's human to your point, everyone's human.

Remeny (17:49.206)
Mmm.

Remeny (18:00.95)
Yes.

Remeny (18:06.486)
Mm.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Mike (18:13.858)
we, as long as you've spotted it, you've fixed it, we've all moved on, it's fine. If you don't have a relationship, that's really hard to do because they're looking for the slightest error.

Remeny (18:23.414)
Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. And it's about, well, it's about being human. It's about building those relationships where you're sharing your personality. And, and actually, and also it's about being honest and owning up to it as quickly as possible. And, and, and, because as you say, everyone makes an error and does things wrong. It's like training children. You've got to do it with your clients as much as your teams and...

Mike (18:39.394)
Exactly.

Remeny (18:50.23)
and you know, and actually, but it's also, I mean, the other thing that strikes me that is often an issue, that comes up again and again is, on boarding issues or lack of onboarding and the fact that expectations are often not set, which then causes the communication issues, which causes scope creep and causes unhappiness and frustration. And so by making sure that you're engaging with your clients in a human way and you

make sure they know what the implications are if things aren't going to be delivered on their end can help keep things flowing. And if they're going to be late, they need to talk to you about it and being open about it. And so, and I mean, one of the other things is the importance of having the courage to challenge your clients. Don't just be yes people. The client isn't always right. You're the expert.

Mike (19:39.074)
Yes.

Exactly.

Remeny (19:45.558)
You need to be able to tell them that's what that's what clients say to me and clients say to me is I want them to challenge me more and and not be afraid of Speaking to me in a you know, we're grown -ups

Mike (19:54.018)
Correct.

Mike (19:59.074)
Or else why would they pay for the advice? It's always struck me as being strange that why would a client pay for advice? And then when you say something challenging, them go, I don't want that. All my clients that I know, they all want to be challenged. They want to be constructively challenged. They want my insights. They want my thoughts. They want my evidence -based input.

Remeny (20:02.71)
Yes.

Remeny (20:15.542)
Yeah. Yeah.

Remeny (20:22.422)
Yes, but part of that as well, is I think that kind of proactive, by proactively taking the time to understand your client's challenges, needs, goals, what they really need, is so important because by, well obviously you can't challenge if you don't know that, but B, you can't come up with ideas properly unless you do. I had one interview I did which the, the,

The end client said to me that the agency, lovely people, really good at what they're doing, but they come up with loads and loads of ideas for stuff that I could be doing, but they haven't taken the time to understand my business. They haven't taken the time to understand my goals. So I've stopped telling them anything because they're wasting my time. And I was like, you know, that's pretty harsh, but really useful. Again, that's an example of what...

client is never going to say to someone's face. They can say it to me but they're not going to say it to their agency because that's pretty, you know, it can be a bit of sound quite offensive but actually it's really really valuable feedback. So...

Mike (21:33.634)
Well, this reminds me also of something I was taught, wow, back in the 90s, which I've mentioned before in the podcast about the trust equation. I mean, you're in the business of building relationships and standing relationships. But it really stuck in my mind about this trust equation in professional services, which is there's many, many ways of building trust. So trust equals credibility multiplied by reliability multiplied by relationship.

Remeny (21:41.014)
Mmm.

Mike (22:02.85)
divided by self -interest, i .e. the more self -interested you are, the worse the trust is. The less self -interested you are, the better the trust is. The more I focus on you as a person and your needs, the more trusting the relationship gets. And I think, again, agency people, all services people need to be reminded of, there are those four elements of building trust. It's not just about having a coffee.

Remeny (22:28.31)
Yeah.

Remeny (22:32.022)
Yes, yes, you've actually got to be interested and you've got to build those relationships. Yeah.

Mike (22:37.186)
And you've got to have credibility. You need to be a trusted advisor. You need to do what you say you'll do when you say you'll do it.

Remeny (22:44.626)
And communicate. I mean, again, that's, and you asked me about the themes. One of the issues that clients complain about the most is lack of communication or bad communication. And I mean, the other ones are kind of processes, making sure that agencies, clients often complain about the fact that the agency's processes aren't very clear or do they have processes? Or, you know, or the processes are really flexible, which is fine with a really small agency, but...

without when you're small, you know, that can cause problems in the future as you grow. And, you know, and again, the proactivity piece, but I think, you know, around the trust is trust has to interweave within all of that. Because without trust, you've got no relationship. And once you've broken the trust, you're probably never going to get it back. Or it's very, very difficult. I mean, that's just life, isn't it? You know, when trust is gone.

Mike (23:36.546)
Exactly.

Remeny (23:42.773)
You can probably improve everything, but once you've messed up on trust... No.

Mike (23:47.682)
Correct, there's no going back. I mean, just on the communication, simple things that I was taught many, many years ago. So on bigger programs, we'd have to do a weekly report. So as the program director, I'd do a weekly report, one page, no more, one side. Then we'd do a monthly report, more detailed, and then we'd have QBRs. And all those are ways of communicating in a written form, and also the QBRs obviously in a face -to -face way, but it just...

Remeny (23:59.382)
Hmm.

Remeny (24:04.246)
Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.

Remeny (24:12.662)
Mm.

Mike (24:17.346)
allows the client to feel like it's being managed, it's under control, we're making progress.

Remeny (24:23.67)
No, I mean, I'm the same with like when I'm doing interviews, I feed back after each interview straight away so that the client can act on what their client has said, or if there's an opportunity or an issue, they can act on it straight away. And then I get it all transcribed so they can see that. And then at the end of the report, which then they can see the big themes. But it's also, it kind of reminded me of the whole retainer issue.

Mike (24:31.234)
Right.

Remeny (24:51.574)
So agencies with retainers, I mean, that's again been really interesting in the report I've been doing, because a lot of the agencies I've been talking to have been saying, you know, as much as retainers sound like a good thing, they can cause so much issue and frustration. And a couple of agencies are saying that they're thinking, you know, getting rid of the retainers, because actually they can, you know, they cause so much.

upset with their clients and the teams and the expectations are expected to be there on, you know, the drop of a hat. But then equally when I'm interviewing clients, I would say the same is that they find that that their expectations aren't being set. They don't know when things are being scheduled, are they being fobbed off, you know, money being ripped off, et cetera. And I think, you know, it's building that trust and making sure that like you were saying, you're talking to your clients ongoing so they know what's happening.

Be open and transparent with your communication. And it might be one week you aren't doing anything or one month you're not doing anything, but you make sure you're being clear that you will deliver when the time comes with, you know, as much time as is needed. But by hiding it, that's where things can go wrong. As hard as it can be to be upfront sometimes, that's important.

Mike (26:00.45)
Exactly.

Mike (26:07.042)
So just on the kind of the final question. So what insights have you gained from doing post -pitch client interviews about the reasons that agencies lose?

Remeny (26:17.526)
I think from the interviews I've done, the most common reason agencies aren't picked is because they have not taken the time to share the personalities of the team. Either the team are presenting in such a way that you can't tell who you're actually going to be working with, you're just talking to presenters.

or the owner is, dominating and then letting their team speak for kind of 10 minutes, you know, and there's no kind of engagement, not giving enough time to, speak to them in a human way. and, I mean, I did an interview recently where, the agency just simply hadn't done their homework, who was going to be in the room, what their background was. They were.

They were told, they told me, the business I spoke to said that they were 90 % sure that they were going to use that agency, but in the pitch they got it all wrong because they didn't engage with the people who were in the room in the right way. They were, they brought four techie guys and presented to four women who weren't technical. They said the pitch was boring and they were lost within the first kind of quarter of it. And so it's kind of...

making sure that you absolutely you've got to do your homework who's going to be in the room what do they want to hear and you know what kind of presentation is it you expect you know what are you what's expected that one again they asked to bring the team and they didn't bring the team they just showed photos of them and talked about them so it's making sure that you know where you can mirror the pitch audience check what is expected make sure that the team that's pitching actually gel and you've got the right

people doing it. So again, I've had situations in interviews where I was told by numerous people for this particular agency that the person who was delivering the pitches, the leading on the pitches, I didn't seem to enjoy himself and he wasn't comfortable and wasn't gelling with anyone. When I fed that back, they were absolutely shocked because they were like, but he loves pitching. And it's like, well, your clients don't think that they, you know, and so you've got to make sure you've got the right people in the room.

Remeny (28:39.894)
you do your homework, you find out what kind of... is it a formal pitch or is it more of a chat? Is it about, you know, that human relationship or is it about presenting to, you know, being very formal? But yeah, I think really the key thing I think is just make sure you do your homework with the pitches and you speak to people and you learn from your mistakes and always try and get that feedback where you can. So...

Mike (28:44.514)
Yes.

Mike (29:06.37)
Exactly. So one technique I was taught many years ago, I don't know if it's still used, certainly in the agency world, but when we were presenting big kind of complex issues, basic consulting approaches to clients years ago, this is back in the nineties, we, yes, we could use PowerPoint, absolutely. But we didn't, we got brown paper, stuck it on the wall. We stuck loads of slides on the wall and loads of diagrams and loads of bits of paper with writing on it.

Remeny (29:27.51)
Hmm.

Mike (29:35.586)
and we'd get the board to stand up, we'd give more post -it notes, and we'd walk around the wall, and we'd have a discussion with them. And then they'd make comments, and we'd get them to write them down and stick them on the wall. So you ended up having this, effectively, this coffee chat discussion in a room with loads of content and people walking around and interacting. And that is a brilliant way...

Remeny (29:41.846)
Huh, brilliant. Yeah.

Remeny (29:56.342)
Yeah.

Remeny (30:01.942)
Mmm. Mmm.

Mike (30:05.506)
of building chemistry with individuals between you as an agency and your client, getting under the real skin of what the problems are and showing that you can think on your feet, not necessarily give the answer, but have a structured way of solving the problem they've just asked.

Remeny (30:16.086)
Yeah.

Remeny (30:24.694)
Yeah, yeah.

Mike (30:26.338)
rather than it's slide 25 and now slide 26 is coming up and you're like wow this is really dull.

Remeny (30:32.95)
Yes. Yeah, exactly. And I think as well, I mean, the one thing that I think what happens so often with pitches is they don't necessarily bring the team because the team or members of the team are rubbish at pitching because it takes a really specific skill to pitch. I mean, personally, I hated pitching because I know, you know, I can, I can talk to anyone, but put me in a room and be, give me slides to be formal. It makes me freeze.

Mike (30:46.466)
Right.

Mike (30:51.586)
Right.

Remeny (31:01.43)
And although I know I can be human, that's not my skill. And so, you know, it's getting the right people, but making sure that the way you're going to pitch will let everyone shine. So like that way would be a great way because it's informal, it enables people to be themselves and you learn about the people and actually, you know, what's going to make you shine. And also the other thing actually is an interesting one about making you shine.

Mike (31:16.994)
Correct.

Mike (31:22.626)
Exactly right.

Remeny (31:29.942)
One of my questions when I interview people is how can the agency help make you shine or your team shine? And I think that's something that should also be considered in your pitch. So it's about the people and nurturing, understanding the relationship enough for you to be able to know that or ask that and make people feel special and be different, you know? So yeah, yeah. So yeah, so I think, you know, it's...

Mike (31:34.53)
Yes.

Mike (31:48.258)
Exactly.

Yeah, be different, stand out. Absolutely. So as a kind of draw to the as a drawing it to a conclusion piece, what are your kind of couple of takeaways? Imagine that I'm a listener, I'm the CEO of an agency or on the senior account director of an agency. What are your kind of couple of big takeaways about a kind of spotting the signs when you need a third party view?

and B, about building more sustainable long -term relationships.

Remeny (32:26.058)
I think if you're looking at your business and people and you're feeling that the environment's a little bit shaky, we talked about the economic crisis situation we're in right now, how are you bringing in that business with you? How are you building your relationship with your clients? Are they strong enough? Is there anything more you could be doing? I mean, as a short...

I think even just looking at the three things I mentioned earlier, processes, productivity, communication, is look at the way you're engaging with your clients. Look at the journey that you take them on and can you improve any elements of those. If you wanted to verify what your clients really think, not only to speak to your clients to understand what they're thinking, to see if there's any opportunities, see if you can get some more referrals, build that credibility, those relationships by speaking to your clients.

by getting someone outside to do it, you can then get that impartial insight to be able to stop to build that trust, build the loyalty and listen. And then you can open, I mean, often people say, you open up conversations that we couldn't have had before enabling your clients to feel heard. It's such a human thing. Everyone wants to be heard. And so by proactively within your organization, make sure that that's...

Mike (33:39.01)
Hmm.

Mike (33:46.818)
Exactly.

Remeny (33:51.382)
Critical part of the way you're building your relationships with your clients, I think, internally and externally is really important. Try to improve the way you're doing things by listening to what your people are saying. I'm not sure if I've fully answered your question. Did I? Okay. Good, good. Process, make sure your processes are clear and that your clients understand what your processes are.

Mike (34:08.098)
That's fine. Perfect. And what are the three things that you'd look at? People, process.

Remeny (34:20.534)
Remembering that you're on boarding is really clear and you remember to onboard if you've got a new team member internally or with your clients so that people know what to expect. So processes, proactivity, be proactive in the way you're engaging with your clients and that you're understanding what your clients needs are, looking at their strategies, understanding how you can help them and serve them in the way that they want to be served and communication.

Make sure you're communicating with your clients regularly. Put that into your processes. So, you know, make sure that you're being human with them and learning about your clients in a way that keeps them loyal and trusting and engaged. And it's about building human relationships.

Mike (35:06.05)
Very good. Remini, it's been fantastic. Thank you ever so much. For anyone listening, if you could subscribe and also write a review, that'd be fantastic. That helps with the podcast. And Remini, where can people find out more about you? And where's that report that you talked about? How can they find out about the report?

Remeny (35:24.246)
Fantastic, thank you so much. My website is brilliantandhuman .com and then of course I'm on LinkedIn as Remini Armitage and the report I am in the process of interviewing people so if anyone would like to take part in either an interview or an online form I will share those links with you if that's okay Mike and then you know if anyone wants to take part I'd love to hear your thoughts.

I am hoping to get it completed for the autumn. I haven't put a date to it yet because I don't want to time myself to anything. Nothing like setting expectations, but no, definitely I'm planning to, I'm hoping to get that done over the summer. So I will share that then. Thank you so much.

Mike (36:03.146)
Exactly.

Mike (36:10.594)
Brilliant. Remini, it's been fantastic. Thank you ever so much.

Right, I'll stop recording.