What Most Agencies Get Wrong About Referrals vs Real Partnerships with Dave Plunkett

[00:00:00] Dave: This stuff won't win you partnerships, but it will keep you them. It's just doing what you say you're gonna do when you say you're gonna do it is a vastly underused skill these days. And also, if you want to scale these, if you want to scale partnerships, it's about having the systems there so that you are offering a better service with less effort.
[00:00:18] Mike: My name's Mike Landerand you are listening to Higgle, the B2B Sales Club podcast. Where we bring you actionable insights about sales, RFPs, negotiations, and difficult procurement discussions from sales leaders, ground leaders, and procurement leaders, please subscribe to get updates when new episodes are released.
Dave, thanks ever so much for joining me on Higgle the B2B Sales Club podcast. Great to have you.
[00:00:46] Dave: It's wonderful to be here. Thank you for inviting me.
[00:00:48] Mike: I've forgotten. How did we get to know each other? Who introduced us?
[00:00:51] Dave: It was the lovely Becca la
[00:00:53] Mike: It was Becca. Exactly. So thanks Becca for introducing Dave. Uh, I had the prerecord and that was brilliant.
So we've got three topics we're gonna go through. But before we start, Dave, for the listeners, who are you? What do you do and your favorite song and why?
[00:01:07] Dave: Okay, so I am Dave. I'm founder of Collaboration Junkie, and most importantly, I'm a dad of three. I'm from the southwest, a lover of football, love of music, lover of just life and being excited by things and connection really, which leads directly into what I do, which is I'm a near bound specialist, so I help people.
I help agencies and other service based businesses. Really understand how to turn friendly human connection into genuine, genuine kind of relationships that deliver leads. Be that through client referrals or partnerships, referrals. Much as Becca referred me to you. Yes. So very ap.
[00:01:44] Mike: Exactly. Right.
[00:01:45] Dave: Oh and my favorite song.
[00:01:46] Mike: Your favorite song. Let's not forget.
[00:01:48] Dave: There are way too many, but 'cause it depends.
[00:01:50] Mike: Ah, you gotta pick one Dave, if you have to pick one.
[00:01:52] Dave: It depends on what mood I'm in, but I'm gonna go with Can Heat by Jamer quite because
[00:01:58] Mike: ah,
[00:01:58] Dave: I'm a big lover of dance music. I'm a big lover of band music and that's kind of the two of them smashed together of Ci Meo live a number of times.
So I'm gonna go with that.
[00:02:09] Mike: Brilliant. Very good. And it reminds you of Happy Times. And are fun times.
[00:02:12] Dave: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
[00:02:13] Mike: Makes perfect sense. So let's start with the questions. So question one, what are partnerships? Why are they important for agencies and professional services firms, and how are they different to client referrals?
There's a nuance isn't there, between referrals and partnerships. So just kinda explain all that for people listening.
[00:02:30] Dave: Yeah, so, so the kind of client and network referral piece. It's great and you absolutely can put process behind it. One of my things is that you can scale referrals and anyone who tells you otherwise, they're trying to sell you something.
But the theme of client and broader network referrals is that you can make it like asking a favor from a friend. But it's gonna be quite hard for 'em to happen from the same person consistently. People, it's gonna be a little bit more opportunistic. With a partnership, you have gone out and you've intentionally decided to work with another business or individual because they not only have the capability.
But they have a vested interest in referring you consistently. Essentially what you do is you will help deliver the end goal that the client wants, that ultimately both you and the partner are gonna get judged on, but neither of you offer the complete picture that delivers that solution. So there's this real, real shared end goal piece.
It's not just about, a client will refer you because, just because they want to, just because they love you and they wanna do you a favor in a partnership. It's much more commercial. There is. Yes, it should still be have values at its foundation, but on top of that, there is this commercial reason for doing it, which is.
Delivering a better end result for the for the client.
[00:03:43] Mike: And bluntly, if you haven't worked out what that combined value is and why you need each other, there is no partnership and it's just really what I would call the kind of gin and tonic and PowerPoint brigade. You'll spend an awful lot of time chatting and meeting up and having a coffee, and it's all complete bs.
Nothing will actually happen.
[00:04:05] Dave: Absolutely. And it also, to your point about why are they so important? Look, wherever high degrees of trust are needed in the sales process, and marketing comes into that because it's someone's reputation. Professional service is often about people's money. Like money and reputation are probably the two things that people care about the most.
Word of mouth will always remain supreme in those instances. Particularly in today's space where trust is an absolute premium. So many people, I'm not saying all outbound is bad because I know some people that do brilliant outbound campaigns full of personality and trust, but because so many people are doing bad outbound personalization at scale is an oxymoron.
All outbound terms
[00:04:46] Mike: personalization at scale is Nazi. What. Absolutely. Yes. So I've been banging on about this and riding this bloody hobby horse around for months now. So AI, mass personalization at scale, it's just, it's an oxymoron. It's wrong, it's wrong, it doesn't, it can't work. And buyers know that.
[00:05:03] Dave: And that's why part, and that is why near bound in general, partnerships and referrals, but particularly the partnership stuff is so vital because in trust based economies and where trust is absolutely a premium, no other kind of channel delivers trust, like partnerships, referrals.
Yeah, absolutely.
[00:05:19] Mike: So let's just give an example. So I'll try one and see if this makes sense. So if you are ICP. Is, I don't know, let's pick something. Let's pick Its consumer and its fashion. So fashion consumer, uh, where if you are an agency and you deliver performance marketing, if you partnered up with a tech platform that also shared the ICP that didn't compete with you, but complimented you so that if you work closely together, the client gets more benefit.
Is that what we're talking about in very practical terms?
[00:05:50] Dave: Yes. But I'm gonna a but here because of the specific partner that you chose in terms of a tech partner. So one of the very first things that I do when I work with people, I have a framework, partnerships, which I know we're all gonna come on to, but like this is very relevant for the starting point.
Dance is my five step framework, and the B is discovery. It's a fifth of the framework, but probably a third of the work I do with people. 'cause all of our understanding who your partners are and what your partner value proposition is, and really understanding who your ideal partners are. Particularly in the agency space, there's a tendency to have lots of friends and call them all partners, and it's a blessing and a curse.
[00:06:26] Mike: And by the way, so just to be clear, so again, I, as everyone knows, I work with a lot of agencies, so does Dave and professional services firms. For example, in the agency space, a lot of agencies will say, well, we're an SEO agency and we get work from a paid media agency because they can't do the SEO bit, but the client needs it, so we refer them.
And so they end up having lots of coffees. With lots of paid media agencies hoping that one of them is going to come forth with loads of different leads. Again, very common. Correct?
[00:06:55] Dave: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:06:55] Mike: But I wouldn't call that a partnership. They haven't formalized it. They're having lots of chats.
[00:06:59] Dave: Yeah, and this is where the ecosystem comes in.
It's one thing having lots of friends, and I'm not saying don't do it. It's about understanding where certain people sit in your ecosystem. So I'll give an example, right? Like,
[00:07:10] Mike: yeah. So talk through how it works. Dave. Talk through D. How does it work?
[00:07:14] Dave: Yeah. So do you understanding who your ideal partners are, right?
That it needs to be matching values, by the way, across all of this, you wanna have that piece. It's also important to have real alignment on the type of client because it's one thing to say, we both work with these types of brands. You really, you need to make sure you are dealing with people who are at the same size and buying capability and all that stuff.
So there needs to be more than a surface level alignment in ideal client profile.
[00:07:38] Mike: For example, we, if you both work with challenger fashion brands, that's a good thing. But if one works with FSE 500 fashion brands and one works with challenges and startups, that probably isn't gonna work.
[00:07:52] Dave: Yeah, absolutely.
You, you are at different price points. You are at all, you, you're probably got a different value, different value points,
[00:07:57] Mike: all sorts of things
[00:07:57] Dave: Absolutely. That. So get really, really finite on that. But then the broader piece is understanding your ecosystem and the customer value chain. And what I mean by customer value chain, it can be a bit more squished in some sectors, but in the agency sector, you could have a client, let's say it's a brand and they have got a thing they want to do.
Let's say it's work with bigger brands and they've got some kind of advisor who they speak to and the advisor goes, yeah, well your own brand doesn't really match that at the moment. So they go to a branding agency, they do get that sorted, and then they, maybe they get their website sorted and then after they've got the website sorted, or as part of that, maybe there's copy, maybe there's video.
After that, they're then going on to the lead generation piece. So maybe they do some outbound, maybe they work with a near bound specialist like me. Right after that, maybe there's some customer service stuff around how they work with those people. Ongoing. There's this natural order of things. People visit people in a certain order when you understand where you sit on that value chain,
[00:08:50] Mike: IE, the order of things that a company does.
To reinvent itself. Know where you fit in that order?
[00:08:57] Dave: Yes. And it could be reinvent themselves. It could be launching a new territory. It could be it be
[00:09:02] Mike: evolution, new products. It could be all sorts,
[00:09:04] Dave: exactly that. But understand where you fit in that chain because the people that come before you on that chain, they are your referral partners.
They are the people who will consistently be able to refer you 'cause they do their bit and they hand it over because they are still getting judged. The branding person can do a wonderful job with the brand, but it there will still only be deemed a success if the client ends up working with these bigger brands.
Right? But they're not in control of that bit. So it's in their interest to hand it over. The people that come after you in that chain, they're great partners to have, but you are gonna be referring them much more than they're gonna refer you.
[00:09:38] Mike: Ah, this is the big problem. I was a partnership manager many, many years ago, and I worked out through very, very, very bad experience.
But bluntly, this was one way traffic. And if it's a one way street, if you've got a big sign that's got an arrow on it and it only points one way, my advice would be don't treat that as a partnership.
[00:09:56] Dave: So I'm going to challenge you on this. Oh, good. 'cause actually it is a partnership, but you just don't set it up as a cross referral.
Like if you are the, and this is to where a partner value proposition comes in. So in that example I gave before, if you are a copywriter, the ideal partner for you is, is website builder that doesn't do copy. Right.
[00:10:14] Mike: Or branding agency that doesn't do copy.
[00:10:16] Dave: Yeah, exactly right. The web, the copywriter's client value proposition could be wew, write words that convert.
Now, I hope it would be better than that if they were copywriters. But you get what I mean, one would hope. Yeah, right.
[00:10:27] Mike: And I'm not a copywriter so I wouldn't known, but yeah.
[00:10:29] Dave: But the partner value proposition to the website person isn't, they don't go to the website person and go, you should work with us.
'cause we can write brilliant copy for your clients that says, oh, you just want access to my list. You go to the website building and you go, we should work together 'cause we'll help you deliver websites that convert and your projects will be quicker 'cause you won't be hanging around on the copy and they'll and, and down.
And so you sell the value to the partner. And so even though it is more one way in terms of the lead provision at see the value isn't because the value isn't a tit for tat on leads. The value is in, in it is better for them to work with you. And I'm a big believer in commercializing these partnerships.
It's not a kickback, it's a cost of sale. It's a marketing channel. And so that's where the value piece comes in.
[00:11:14] Mike: And so we're clear channels have to be paid for.
[00:11:16] Dave: Yeah.
[00:11:16] Mike: Like any marketing and distribution channel that comes at a price. You can't expect it for free, and I'm with you. It's not a kickback.
That's a commercial arrangement. You want access to a bigger market. If someone else has got that access to a bigger market, you have to pay for that access.
[00:11:31] Dave: So between that and a partner value proposition means that that is the way that you don't have to set up a agency to agency relationship that's based on cross referrals.
That is never gonna be even because of the nature of this value chain.
[00:11:43] Mike: But that's a good challenge to the thinking, Dave. That's what the show's about. That's exactly it is that my preconception, based upon my bias. It had to be both ways. But you're saying no, it doesn't. As long as you are clear that it's one way and there's a commercial value to the person that is basically bringing the leads, that's okay.
[00:12:00] Dave: And that commercial value can be money. It can also be the fact that there is this, ultimately the end goal for the client is gonna be better. The the final results can be better, and that's why. Understanding your ecosystem and really understanding the partner value proposition that you bring. Once people get their head around that, all the other structural bits, like putting process behind it becomes so easy because the partner suddenly you move from someone where, oh, wouldn't it be nice to refer them where we can to, oh no, we need to refer you wherever and whenever we can.
Now the tech one is interesting. We started this off with, oh, agency and tech. Because typically tech comes after agency, right? Like it's the agency's got the advisor status, they refer the tech in. A tech partner will have lots and lots and lots of agencies they work with. So unless you are providing them with loads of leads, which for the majority of agencies, they're not gonna be sending loads of away, you're not gonna get leads back from them by and large.
Where you can work really well though with people like tech partners. Is look at them as audience partners. Although they don't have trusted advisor data, typically they have access to a lot of people. And so what co-marketing can you do and not just them promoting a webinar of yours, take what you do and wrap it around what they do so it feels really genuinely joined.
And then that I call that an audience partner. They will put you in front of a load of people, you'll get access to them, and then it's up to you to nurture and convert them through yourself.
[00:13:23] Mike: So let's talk about the why of that. My approach, broadly less formalized than your dance model with tech partners is that is the realization that they're not gonna refer me work.
They might, but it's highly unlikely for all sorts of much more complex reasons. But what they do want is they want something to say to their prospects and to their clients that they want to upsell. Well, they need thought leadership. What they're often not great at is deep domain thought leadership. So if you can bring that to them and then you co-brand it.
That becomes very helpful for them. Something to say really powerful for you if it's the right brand.
[00:14:00] Dave: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, you've hit the nail on the head. It's exactly that. But I think what, what so many people don't get right when they try this is they just try and get them to, they try to get techmark to push out their normal stuff, and all I'm saying is if you've just taken extra little bit of time to think about it and make really subtle changes somewhere so that it feels more joined up with whatever that tech platform does, whether it's.
Whether it's segmentation, whether it's data point tracking, whether it's, whatever it may be, just make it a combined story and you'll get more of these tech partners saying yes and, and they'll be more happy to push it. So,
[00:14:32] Mike: so now let's talk about dance. So what is the dance framework? Why was it called dance?
Why was
[00:14:37] Dave: it called dance? Why was it called dance? Because I'm a massive music fan and it's fun and I love it, right? So no, absolutely nothing other than that, right? But also. It's about partnerships, it's about human connection and you need that to dance, right? And a dance floor is the most joyous, connected place in the world.
And that connectivity is what it's all about.
[00:14:54] Mike: Yeah. No, that's good. I think that's a perfectly logical it emotional reason.
[00:14:58] Dave: But I mean, my brand collaboration junkie, like all of these things are essentially pre-qualifies. If you don't like the name of the company or you don't like the fact that it's a dance friend, you're not gonna enjoy working with me.
So let's,
[00:15:08] Mike: right,
[00:15:09] Dave: let's just, let's just cut to the chase right away is a good point. Bit of a kind of a pre-qualifier, more than a, we're here for a good time, not a long time. Right? So let's do that. So the D is discovery, which is essentially what we've just spoken about, right? It's making sure you're working with the right partners.
A is assembling, this is systems and structure, right? Like this stuff won't win. New partnership. But it'll keep you them. It's just doing what you say you're gonna do when you say you're gonna do it is a vastly underused skill these days. And also, if you want to scale these, if you wanna scale partnerships, it's about having the systems there so that you are offering a better service with less effort.
That's intentional. And it's things like, it is like the commercial models behind it, right? So. It's about going, how are we rewarding our partners? And then when you're looking at client referrals going, well, how are we rewarding them? Because while you might have a formal partnership program, newsflash, your clients do not wanna join a referral program.
They don't want it, and they don't want it to be a sales activity. They don't want to be incentivized. Refer us. So we'll give you a hundred pound a voucher and you go, oh, I referred you, but now you've made it sales and it feels icky. Yeah. With referrals, you wanna reward them. Right?
[00:16:17] Mike: There's also Dave on that point, if you are the CMO of a big brand.
And you get offered a financial incentive to refer an agency. There's all sorts of reasons why that's a really bad idea. A, they can't offer them because of their governance rules. They're not allowed to do that. And B, if they're a CMO of a decent sized brand, a hundred quid, it's gonna make no difference.
I think if you offer them tickets to the theater or something, maybe, I don't know. What are your thoughts?
[00:16:44] Dave: So this is it, because even if it's a chunkier, more like the partner commissions where it might be a percentage of revenue that's going to the business, not the person. My whole thing with referrals is that you reward them.
You don't incentivize them. You reward them at the end, and you raise an unexpected smile. You don't publicize it, you just do it. You send the gift. And the whole point is that I want you to phone me up after I made the referral to you and go, Dave, there is no need for you to do that, but thank you. And it's because something's arrived on your doorstep.
The more personal, the better. Like yes, a bottle of wine's nice, whatever it may be. But if you really know someone and can do something personal, I once did give someone like 150 quid ticket master voucher. But that's because he said he hadn't been to a gig in ages. And I was like, right, you and the wife go to a gig.
I wanna know which one you went to. And he honestly was so made up. Right. And it's that, that type of thing.
[00:17:35] Mike: And also that wouldn't breach any governance rules, Dave. That would be like, that's okay. That's fine. You referred an agency and they said thank you. No one's gonna have a qualm with that.
[00:17:44] Dave: Yeah. And then whether it's agency, whether it, any sector that kind of, that thing, you might, there are some sectors where you have to be super, super, super, super careful around gifting.
Right. But in general, most people, yeah.
[00:17:53] Mike: So public sector, so people are clear public sector financial services. Pharmaceuticals, highly regulated industries, then it would be a bad idea. You would have to really check what they're allowed to have and what they're not allowed to have because it could get sent back.
[00:18:06] Dave: Yeah. But in general, that's your safest bet. One caveat to this is if your audience is full of salespeople or commission driven people, they are extrinsic, they are reward. And so they probably would, actually would prefer the cash, right? It's a cultural thing. It's not necessarily that they need the moment, but they're used to, if I do this thing that generates a result, then I get a share of it.
And so actually, that's probably the one exception to that rule around client and network referrals was if your client base is full of brokers and salespeople, then incentivize away because that's, that's what floats their boat.
[00:18:37] Mike: That's what they do. It's what floats their boat. Exactly. Right. So what's the N?
[00:18:41] Dave: So N is nurturing, and this is all about having the right comms in place. So from the very first call with someone through to the key ones, I think in partnerships, in partnerships are strategic planning and setting expectations at the start of the partnership so that you don't shake hands and then nothing happens.
Yeah. And you want to look long term, like where do you see this? 'cause it might be that your partner goes, well eventually you wanna bring what you do in house. Now that's fine, but wouldn't you rather know that kind of going into, into the partnership, right? And then you wanna look, not even midterm, you want to look short term, which is how is the partnership gonna work day to day?
And then you wanna look immediate term, but what are we doing right now to capitalize on this momentum? And so many people don't do this. So they're in the exciting world domination stage, but map out who's doing what Well, and just get yourself started. So that's a key bit of, um. Of kind of the partner comm process people gonna do, but then it's looking at onboarding, it's looking at monthly reporting.
It's also remembering to do ad hoc check-ins. So I have this big thing in relationships about using a CRM or a spreadsheet. Like if someone says they're going on holiday or it's their anniversary or their kids' graduation, and they can note in your spreadsheet, in your serum and get back in touch. I've had people say to me before, like, oh, isn't that a bit manipulative?
And I'm like, not if only if you mean it that way. Nothing. It's the same as a kitchen calendar that's got all your friends' birthdays on that and your PR family. It's just reminding you to do something that you do genuinely want to do, but you know, you'll forget otherwise. Right? So,
[00:20:09] Mike: but it has to be genuine.
[00:20:10] Dave: 100%.
[00:20:11] Mike: There's a big thing I was taught many, many years ago in selling about trust. There's a guy called Meister, wrote this thing called the trust equation. Trust equals credibility plus reliability, plus professional relationship divided by self-interest. So you have to be not self-interested to increase trust.
If they see that you are doing this because you want to get a deal, well that's just your self-interest showing and that will destroy trust.
[00:20:35] Dave: Yes. But there is nothing wrong with being very intentional about doing the things you want because you know there's gonna be an outcome at the end, but it's not the driver.
Most of us don't have time to see our actual friends as much as we would like, right. So we're all in these relationships. We're not in them for friendship, we're in them because we wanna deliver better results and ultimately be commercially successful. So as long as it's genuine, as you say, as long as it's not based on self-interest and eroding that trust equation, it's fine.
So that stuff, the other big bit of comms in partnerships that people often don't do is strategic reviews. Yeah. But we talk to our partners all the time. Yeah. About tactical. Having strategic reviews allows you to really assess what you could be doing better that they maybe otherwise wouldn't have said about celebrate wins, but also being curious, like curiosity is the birthplace of opportunity and just finding out what's going on in the world.
You are not top of your partner's world and top of their mind all the time. So they will say things about something else they're doing that. Uncover more for you to do or more for someone else you know, to do. And just, just that being and it builds the relationship more. So having those set aside, if you could do it over lunch.
Amazing. Like, so it's about really having a thought out, end-to-end journey. It's a mix of tactical stuff, but relationship building as well.
[00:21:44] Mike: Perfect.
[00:21:45] Dave: C. C for connection.
[00:21:46] Mike: Ah, C for connection, not C for communication, as I'd gone off paste
[00:21:50] Dave: no C for connection. And connection is all about how would you make it easy for your partners stroke referrals to connect you to their audience, right?
And this could be training, it could be, if it's gonna be all about personal referrals, it's like let them understand when the ideal time to referral. Let them know how to refer you, like how to position you. So they say, yeah, it could be co-marketing that we kind of spoke about with the tech partners already, right?
Make it easy for people to, to do that stuff. Give them the content in the format that they need it. Be helpful. Be kind like if you've done the discovery part right and had a strong partner value proposition, they will want to put you in front of their audience and every bit of content you give them is one less bit that they've got to write.
Like be befriend the marketing manager. The final bit of this. And this is when a partnership works really well with like clockwork product ties a bit of your service, right? It doesn't mean you sell this as a product, but I mean bundle something up that you do. It could just be a bit of advice. It could be a rapport, it could be anything.
That means your partners can build with. Build that into their own customer journey. It can be something that you do for low, ideally no cost, but it means that your partners have an opportunity to proactively put you in front of every single person they work with. And that's when a partnership works at Clockwork.
And then ease engagement. It's how do you actually go out there and get more partners? And it's the bit that people obsess over, but it is actually the easiest bit. 'cause you don't need loads of partners. You need the right partners. And actually for most. Almost everyone. I'm yet to work with someone where they don't have access to certainly enough to get going with, right?
In their immediate or want some new network, right?
[00:23:21] Mike: So in a parallel world, this is the same problem that you have in negotiation. Dance is spelled D-A-N-C-E. It is not spelt EC, et cetera. And in negotiation. It's the same problem. It's like everyone gets excited by, oh, I've got 20 minutes before I get into the room.
I'll, yeah, I'm gonna really enjoy this negotiation. It's like, no, no, no. You were meant to prepare for it. You were meant to do all the groundwork, way in advance of the meeting. It's the same problem. Everyone wants to start at the end 'cause it's the fun bit. Without doing the thinking bit.
[00:23:53] Dave: I am, it happens all the time when I work with a client.
Well, the ones that don't listen as well as they should, we do the discovery bit and they now know who these ideal partners are, and they're like, right, bam, we haven't done, we haven't done the first call, second call bit in the nurturing bit yet. And, and then they go, and then once we have, and they have more confidence, like, oh, it's much easier now, isn't it?
I'm like, yes, it is. So it's very, very intentionally at the end of my framework because the last week I get to with clients.
[00:24:20] Mike: So for people listening, they might be in the car. Um, it's easier to think about it if you summarize it. Explain dance in 30 seconds. What the steps are,
[00:24:28] Dave: these discovery, understand who your real ideal partners are and why they would want to work with you, your partner.
Value proposition A is having the right systems and structures behind the scenes so you can deliver consistent service and scale. N is nurturing. It's the stuff that builds the relationships that don't ever look anywhere else. C is connection. Make it super easy for them to refer you or mu or promote you out to their audience.
And then last but not least, e is engagement. Once you've got all that right, then you go out there and, and you look for partners. But it'll be easy because of everything else you've done before. It's
[00:25:01] Mike: brilliant, Dave, and that is a wrap because normally at end they'll say, oh yeah, what are your top three tips?
Well, it's not three, it's five. Follow the dance move.
[00:25:08] Dave: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
[00:25:10] Mike: Dave, it's been a real pleasure. Thanks ever so much for explaining very clearly and opening a door onto a subject that I think is poorly understood, including me. About a systematic approach to partnering and making that commercial successful.
Just one last thing for people that are listen and about to turn off, don't what kind of economic success comes from this, don't gimme the names of companies, but just broadly, you know, in terms of increasing sales, driving sales growth.
[00:25:37] Dave: Yeah, so I, I mean, I have some silly ones. I did, I had a WhatsApp message from an agency owner who'd spend literally half a day with me on referral strategy.
And you like numbers, Dave, don't you? And I was like, yeah. He's like, well, 80 2K in confirmed work, just off that half day with another 40 in the pipeline. And I've had people like bring in a hundred K within six weeks. So I did like, if you get this, if you've already got good relationships, you can actually turn these things on really, really, really quickly.
I had to one three new signed clients within three months. Of doing relatively small bit of of work for me. So it's big. And I think they're only improving because of what we said about trust because
[00:26:13] Mike: exactly.
[00:26:13] Dave: It's gonna be key. I can, I can only see it. I can only see the need to rely more on relationships increasing over the coming months.
[00:26:20] Mike: Brilliant. Thank you. Have you written a Dan book by any chance?
[00:26:23] Dave: Yes. If people had over the collaboration junkie.com, then it'll either be out, you can buy it, or at the very least you'll be able to sign up to know when it is released. So yeah, absolutely.
[00:26:32] Mike: Brilliant. Dave, it's been a pleasure. Thanks ever so much for joining me.
[00:26:35] Dave: Thanks having me.
[00:26:36] Mike: Thanks for listening to Higgle, the B2B Sales Club podcast series with your host Mike Lander. Please subscribe so that you'll catch all the next episodes.