Why Human Judgement Is the New Premium with Claire Lambell

[00:00:00] Claire: When everything can be tested, I think there is a kind of danger of losing that gut and not balancing kind of performance, because obviously we love testing here, but balancing performance with actually does this feel right? Does it feel right? So having good people who have got that partnership relationship with the client to give proper good counsel.
On what they think is right for the brand because they know the client well and they know the brand just as well as the client, if not better.
[00:00:29] Mike: My name's Mike Lander and you are listening to Higgle, the B2B Sales Club podcast, where we bring you actionable insights about sales, RFPs, negotiations, and difficult procurement discussions from sales leaders.
Ground leaders and procurement leaders, please subscribe to get updates when new episodes are released.
Thanks ever so much for joining me again on Higg, all the B2B sales for the podcast 'cause you've been here before. Great to have you back.
[00:00:59] Claire: I have indeed. And very, very good to be back. Thank you for inviting me.
[00:01:03] Mike: So for the audience, who are you? So what's your name? Who are you, what do you do? And then your favorite song and why.
[00:01:10] Claire: Okay, so I am Claire Ambel. I'm md Chief Growth Officer here at South P we're part of Hacka Hodo, so they're UK agency and very proudly so too song choice. That's a really tough one because I probably like many of your guests. I adore music and actually spoken quite a lot about the power of music on mood and mindset.
So if you look at my Spotify playlist, it's very, very varied. Yeah. But I've been locked listening to a lot of Stevie Wonder recently. Oh
[00:01:39] Mike: wow.
[00:01:40] Claire: So you can't go wrong with bit of Stevie. You
[00:01:42] Mike: can't.
[00:01:43] Claire: And I love, I love superstition.
[00:01:45] Mike: Yeah. And
[00:01:46] Claire: why? It's not because I'm superstitious. No, I just love it. I love the beat and I love the soundtrack and the words, and he's just, he's just a serious, serious cool dude.
For sure.
[00:01:56] Mike: Absolutely. Definitely, definitely. In fact, you've reminded me after this show, I think I'll go back and listen to certainly Superstitious, definitely
[00:02:04] Claire: can't go
[00:02:04] Mike: wrong. So before we get into, we've got kinda three big questions we want to talk about, and this is off the back of for people listening, the agency reset report that I wrote, which a lot of people contributed to, so thank you.
I had about 300 requests for that. So it hit a nerve and they were mainly agency leaders from the very largest in the world to the. Very small list, and the startups and advisors and everyone else along. I wanted to get Claire on to talk about from an agency perspective, what her views were on that report and where she thinks the future's going.
Before we do that, Claire, just like very broadly, how's the market currently? What's going on?
[00:02:42] Claire: Well, obviously I, I'll approach it in terms of how we found it here. Correct. That's all you can
[00:02:46] Mike: do.
[00:02:47] Claire: But of course, we stay incredibly close to industry press, and I know that from getting all the campaign alerts, the world is a, is quite a fragile, scary place when it comes to ad agencies and you only need to look at those alerts that you, you're getting in inboxes to know that there is no same day.
That's always been the case, but obviously with the advancements in technology and ai, it's definitely putting significant pressure on US agencies. I think what we're finding actually, um, and we'll come on to talk about this, is that we're being leaned on more and more for our strategic. And our interesting strategic thinking and making sure that not just the strategic part of it is strong, but actually the work that we then produce marries up to that.
Yeah. So that bridge, that bridge is incredibly, incredibly strong and we're getting more and more briefs asking for human. Human thinking, human insights, and of course within those briefs, how do we then use the new technology, the AI advancements, to speed up and find efficiencies in then how it's produced?
So actually the market for us is being quite buoyant. Q4, Q1. Obviously long may that continue, but it's playing to our strengths, playing to what we've always focused on, which is, which is really, really rigorous strategic creativity.
[00:04:06] Mike: And I think we're gonna come back to that as a thread throughout the entire discussion.
And as we know, the, the world isn't falling in the agency world's not about to collapse. We're not gonna lose 90% of the agency workforce in the next 12 months. But the market's shifting.
[00:04:21] Claire: Mm-hmm.
[00:04:22] Mike: And it's shifting because the client side's shifting and the clients can have now got more choices. The ecosystem's gonna start to look different, the buyer's gonna start to want different things.
Mm-hmm. And agencies have to work out what that position in that landscape looks like over the next three to five years. So let's kick off with the kind of the opening, bigger themed question. So what's the strategic moat for a creative agency in the next 12 to 36 months, given the rapid advancements in AI and platform plays?
You know, is it positioning? Is it the creative human chops? Is it consumer insights, strategic thinking? What do you think?
[00:05:05] Claire: Well, I think it's all of that actually. So I think your question around moats, it won't be the ability to make more creative faster. AI already solved that, so actually it's finding opportunities to make the right creative in the right places, of course, for the right commercial incomes because there is more and more impact from our clients in doing.
Great work for less.
[00:05:31] Mike: Yes.
[00:05:32] Claire: So I think, as I said, definitely not a single thing. Perhaps the moat is a bit of a stack. You talk about positioning, you know, how do we own the problem space? For the client take their problems on, and then think about how we then deliver kind of strategic solutions that position the brands around how they continue to build what they've already got.
That's working well, transform where they need to transform and ultimately support 'em in growing in their category and acting as kind of. Category leaders. Yeah, so it's about helping brands win attention, and I think that we've got our positioning as South Paul as Challenger brand. So how do we help them disrupt and win attention in a world that with AI could become quite similar?
[00:06:23] Mike: Exactly. Right.
[00:06:24] Claire: Age of average. So how do we ensure that we get the cut through and we win attention in a tricky climate? You talk a lot about kind of human chops, you know, the creative human chops, and Absolutely. This is an area that AI can't plausibly do well
[00:06:39] Mike: at the moment. It can't. You're right. Exactly.
That's right.
[00:06:41] Claire: Yeah. Currently,
[00:06:42] Mike: yes.
[00:06:43] Claire: So, you know, we should absolutely be leveraging human. The, the humanness of how we approach the work. You know, how we feel about things.
[00:06:51] Mike: Yeah, the
[00:06:52] Claire: craft,
[00:06:53] Mike: the
[00:06:53] Claire: judgment. Yeah, absolutely. And what kind of cultural trade-offs should we make, and importantly, deciding what not to do.
We are always fed insights. It's not necessarily insights that, all those insights we play out through the work we have to make kind of strategic human decisions on what we think is right. Exactly. You know, that that really important,
[00:07:13] Mike: that judgment.
[00:07:13] Claire: Yeah. That really important gut, you know? Yeah. So I think those agencies that succeed will continue to, to deliver really strong creative opinions.
I think curate, rather than just play out all the insights that these new tools are given us. And as you say, you, you use the word taste, but I think having that kind of gut or taste for what we think will work, knowing the brands as well as we should know, the brands we're working on will give us that edge.
[00:07:41] Mike: Definitely.
[00:07:42] Claire: You know, I think that's incredibly important. And then you spoke a little bit about kind of consumer, obviously consumer insights and data. We're getting more and more and more of this, and everyone will have dashboards, but how do we then translate that into human truths? Yes. And then use those as.
Emotional levers to to build connection. Connection with our audiences, with our communities. And importantly, right now, knowing when data might not be so spot on. I think there's a lot of people who still take, who are, or certainly taking the insights that ai, uh, tools are giving us as, as gospel.
[00:08:17] Mike: And if everyone's got access to them and they all look the same.
You are back to that market of sameness. Yeah,
[00:08:24] Claire: absolutely.
[00:08:24] Mike: Everything looks very similar. Yeah.
[00:08:26] Claire: Because
[00:08:26] Mike: everyone's chasing the same thing off the same insights.
[00:08:29] Claire: Yeah, for sure. I think it is that, that gut instinct, that bit, you know, we are, that we love doing here, which is understanding what, how emotion can move people to make a decision.
[00:08:43] Mike: Exactly, and I think, you know, we're not saying that insight's irrelevant. The opposite data and insight are critical.
[00:08:50] Claire: Yeah.
[00:08:50] Mike: But it's what I would call necessary but not sufficient. Totally. What you are talking about is I think if I play back that human craft, that judgment, that insight, that experience becomes critical.
Yeah. And we'll come back to it through the recording about, I've got a view about a three layer model with an agency world.
[00:09:08] Claire: Yeah.
[00:09:08] Mike: Which is you've got the cockpit, high judgment, you know, craft strategic insight, um, working side by side with your clients, giving advice, being the partner. Yeah. You've then got the orchestration layer.
In the middle, which is pulling things together. I don't mean the automation bit of like one agent talking to the next agent. It's not a zap thing. It's the orchestration of different parts of the ecosystem. Humans have to still connect bits. Yeah. And work out which bits should go to which people, and is the quality good enough?
And then you've got the engine. I mean, the engine room is the dangerous part. Yeah. Which is if you're in the market of taking a master brand and turning it into a thousand assets, that's probably not a great place to be. If you want differentiation and premium pricing.
[00:09:57] Claire: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:09:57] Mike: But that top layer, the cockpit, there's a lot of value in that.
[00:10:01] Claire: Absolutely. Absolutely.
[00:10:03] Mike: So the next one, as deployment of campaigns based on that kind of master creative brand asset becomes truly commoditized. That engine that we were just talking about, how can agencies really maintain that kind of premium price? You know, there's examples like add creative.ai, smartly.io.
They're platforms that disrupt the creative agency sector, and I'm not judging if they're good or bad, and they're certainly not sponsoring the show, but they're, they exist and people talk about them.
[00:10:33] Claire: Yeah.
[00:10:33] Mike: So what are your views, Claire?
[00:10:35] Claire: Well, firstly, you are absolutely right in framing this shift. It's happening, you know, so platforms like AD Creative ai.
Smart IO Metro Advantage are all making kind of distribution level creativity table stakes. And I think for us, you know, we know that. Creatives that easily multiply. So the previous example, as you say, is once you've come up with a, a brand idea, a key visual Yeah. You know, you can then absolutely leverage these platforms to deliver huge efficiencies for your clients.
So that is where there is challenge for sure, in
[00:11:12] Mike: Yeah.
[00:11:12] Claire: Agencies that have had. A model that has been based on, you know, heavy load production. For sure. So I think your, your point around how agencies can differentiate, I think there's kind of four key areas for me, which is campaigns in terms of campaign delivery are more disposable now.
So I think agencies that look at being more flexible to different operating systems, creating master ideas. High value, but then given thought to them how they travel across platforms and context and time. And then of course within toolkits, defining rules of expression. So not just thinking about asset, you know, asset first.
So, you know, gone are the days where we want a 60, 62nd. TV ad, please. It's thinking about something that's going to endure the test of time. Mm-hmm. Is gonna give them that, that positive disruption and challenge in a world that could quite easily become this sea of sameness, as I've just kind of touched on earlier.
[00:12:09] Mike: What's that rules of expression? What, what do you mean by that? I'm not sure I understand what that means.
[00:12:12] Claire: So how, how the brand is, is kind of showing up. So, you know, it's, it's a consistency point. But kind of rules of engagement, I guess. Right? So where AI might just adopt and adapt in terms of formats or the practicalities of the production part of it, the tone, you know?
Right. So the, the language we use, the personality that comes through. So it's, it's more the heart, the heart part of the, the brand idea. I think is incredibly important to get through, which is what, what I kind of meant by expression. Does that make sense?
[00:12:45] Mike: Yeah, yeah. Makes perfect sense.
[00:12:47] Claire: Definitely. Right?
The second area probably in terms of how agencies can continue to show value and succeed is this kind of. Narrative architecture. I've actually just touched on it in terms of personality and language and tone of voice. I think humans will continue to win at this storytelling.
[00:13:09] Mike: Yes.
[00:13:09] Claire: The long term storytelling and making sure that we are thinking, and actually we touched on it just before the, the pod around the Japanese.
The culture. Yes, the culture part. The Japanese absolutely adore and consistently. Staying true to. And so it's actually thinking about how that works for the long term. So it's thinking less short term, more long term in terms of how is that brand going to thrive? Yeah. Not just survive in a world that is becoming more and more AI enabled and run by that.
So it's the storytelling part which we here at Southport adore and put a lot of heart and soul into.
[00:13:52] Mike: Yep.
[00:13:53] Claire: And then maybe the third area is around judgment. So when everything can be tested, I think there is a kind of danger of losing that gut.
[00:14:02] Mike: Yeah.
[00:14:02] Claire: You know? And not balancing kind of performance, because obviously we love testing here, but balancing performance with actually does this feel Right?
Exactly. Doesn't feel right. So having good people who have got that partnership relationship with the client to give. Proper good counsel. Yeah. On what they think is right for the brand because they know the client well and they know the brand just as well as the client, if not better. And then actually that leads me quite nicely onto my final point, which is we're incredibly proud of our average tenure with clients.
You know, it's well over nine years, but we are client partners. We're not suppliers. Yes,
[00:14:37] Mike: exactly.
[00:14:38] Claire: And I think clients are looking more and more for human partners. So those who are not just there to celebrate the wins, but also those who are happy to saddle up and ride the choppier waters with them. Those that know their business just as well as them, if not better, and obsess over what's next.
[00:14:55] Mike: Yes.
[00:14:55] Claire: You know, looking ahead, not in the rear view mirror and giving them confidence, calmness, and really importantly, clear direction.
[00:15:02] Mike: And I think that last one. Around. I think all the points are brilliant. It's interesting when I, when I po the questions before we have the recording, I sat there thinking, oh, blaming.
Actually, they're quite difficult questions to respond to.
[00:15:15] Claire: Yeah,
[00:15:15] Mike: because you gave
[00:15:16] Claire: good homework, Mike.
[00:15:18] Mike: Well that's great, Claire. That gave some homework. The responses are really good because it is difficult in a market that is being, production is being commoditized. It's like, well, and that's where. The production engine was where a lot of agencies were comfortable and where they made good money, uh, in the past.
And that, that's, that's going now what we're talking about broadly here is that judgment layer, that senior experience, that craft, that storytelling. Um, higher order skills is where we're basically saying that, that we need to. Focus more of our attention. Um, I was talking to another creative person last week who has been in the creative industry for many years.
Like you have very experienced, and he was saying, you know, look, some of the campaigns that don't test well are the ones that cut through the most. And if you just relied on ai, it would tell you, well, that isn't gonna work.
[00:16:08] Claire: Yeah.
[00:16:09] Mike: But we know, I mean, and there are certain very old school campaigns that, like the Gorilla Campaign that everyone knows
[00:16:15] Claire: mm-hmm.
[00:16:16] Mike: That tested really badly. But it was one of the world's, you know, leading adverts and the stayed in people's memories for years and years and years. So machines don't always get it right. You do need human judgment.
[00:16:30] Claire: Absolutely. Absolutely. And and a great example actually, you've used, I've argued that very point a few times in my career for sure.
[00:16:37] Mike: So how should agencies balance the kind of AI with authentic intelligence on behalf of clients? IE That human edge, the craft, the judgment. You, you have to do both. Mm. Because clients are asking about it. We, we can't, we can't just say it's all about the craft. 'cause agent clients will be saying, yeah, that's true, Claire, but I've got targets to hit.
And I've got a production engine to run and I need to tell the board what we're doing with AI to make things more efficient. Yeah. And effective.
[00:17:08] Claire: Yeah. So look, I think this is a great question to lead on from the previous, actually, because I think the reality is that those platforms are brilliant at automating kind of high volume production.
I think they can absolutely improve performance iteration, and they can reduce friction at the execution layer without a doubt. Which is why, as you say, those agencies that have been built on heavy production and output will struggle.
[00:17:36] Mike: Yeah,
[00:17:36] Claire: and what they don't do, and again, we've touched on this already, is they don't, or certainly can't always make the best ethical or cultural judgments.
They can't decide on the most appropriate strategic or creative trade-offs. Mm-hmm. And they definitely can't build trusted relationships that enjoy the test of time. Well, I mean, obviously I do know that AI is being used often actually by people as their kind of local, I say local, their kind of counselor, their confidant.
But actually when it comes to our world and how we're working with our, our partner clients, I think as I said, that trusted partnership. Absolutely will enjoy the test of time as we both navigate a very, very changing world. So I think to your cockpit analogy, I think let the platforms handle the engine.
And agencies own, continue to own the direction and orchestration. You know, we are the, we're perhaps the conductor
[00:18:35] Mike: exactly
[00:18:36] Claire: of an orchestra. We're the conductor. Another analogy, but a conductor of an orchestra and knowing who to call on and what to call on on when.
[00:18:43] Mike: Yes, definitely, definitely. So let's just talk about, in fact, before the, kind of like the, the kind of the, the roundup question at the end.
Let's ask you a different question, which I haven't again prepared 'cause they're always the best. Which follows on from that theme. I. At an industry level, so I'm not talking about Southport as an industry level. What happens to the future of the industry regarding talent to the future?
[00:19:10] Claire: Mm.
[00:19:10] Mike: We used to bring people in and it was the same in consulting.
You'd go in as a junior consultant, you'd learn your craft from directors and partners. If you did really well and you tuned in, then you became a director and a partner, and then you brought in the next wave, and that's how the model worked. What we're talking about here with the three align model, the role of the conductor, the orchestration, and the engine moving more towards platforms, less and less need as an industry for more junior entry level people in the old roles, that doesn't mean that they're not needed.
But the old role is no longer needed. Where do you think it's going overall? At a bigger picture level for the more junior people.
[00:19:53] Claire: Great question. And I'm not sure I've got the, you know, the, the kind of cri, well certainly not the crystal ball to tell you, but
[00:20:00] Mike: if you had the answer, that would be unbelievable.
It's really just like, what are your thoughts?
[00:20:05] Claire: It's a hot topic and yeah. I'm a member of, um, an IPA business group working with many other kind of agency MDs and leaders, and it was, it's a key topic. We're seeing a lot of people either in those roles or more senior roles leaving the industry 'cause they're so worried.
They've been spooked by what? What's going on? And is this a career now for me? Do I have a career that I can drive in? But also we are finding, actually some of the hires we are making are more kind of mid to senior level. Because as you say, that junior role is tricky.
[00:20:39] Mike: Yeah.
[00:20:40] Claire: But I think if I do respond to it.
Maybe based on my personal experience is I'm starting now to see people who aren't necessarily industry folk. You know, they, yes, they might have actually, they might start, start to make sideways moves and I always look at people in terms of attitude,
[00:20:58] Mike: right,
[00:20:58] Claire: right. Attitude first. 'cause you can teach people,
[00:21:01] Mike: you can these
[00:21:02] Claire: things.
Yeah. You can absolutely mold them into the, the type of person based on our culture and based on the work that we're doing. But absolutely right here, right now, that junior level, that entry role is tough.
[00:21:15] Mike: Yeah.
[00:21:16] Claire: But I am really, really, really keen to try and continue to support new people coming into our.
Industry. So the IPA, uh, again, of course very dedicated to doing that too. And they hold kind of IPA unlocked days where they get a lot of students going to different agencies to understand what the industry is all about. And of course, part of our industry now is leveraging ai. Exactly. And going back to earlier points, so finding people ultimately who are curious,
[00:21:44] Mike: yes.
[00:21:44] Claire: Who are great partners, who are relationship people who want to get the best out of their client. Relationship. So there's going to be different rules of the game for sure when you're coming to recruit. And actually it might put into question as you say, some of the typical roles that you'll, you'll, or titles that you create or you'll see on rate cards.
But you know, bolstering and still making sure people see this industry as an attractive one to come into
[00:22:13] Mike: Exactly.
[00:22:14] Claire: Is incredibly important. Yeah. So yeah, hopefully we'll continue to fight the good fight.
[00:22:19] Mike: And that craft track, you know, bringing new young people into the craft lane
[00:22:25] Claire: Yes.
[00:22:25] Mike: Of the agency world that will continue to exist.
[00:22:28] Claire: Yes.
[00:22:29] Mike: High craft, high judgment. Creative people be that writing or image or video or whatever it might be, or just like brand strategy, those roles will still exist. They'll morph and they'll change.
[00:22:42] Claire: Yeah. More and,
[00:22:42] Mike: but they'll still exist.
[00:22:43] Claire: Yeah. More and more so. 'cause I, it goes back to this age of average point.
I'm really nervous. That we'll get to a point where actually it's, wherever you look it, it looks so similar.
[00:22:54] Mike: It's all a bit bland.
[00:22:55] Claire: Yeah. And so we need those craft people. We need those, we do, um, creative folk to come and tell us a new story. And we do disrupt and challenge and keep us smiling ultimately, you know?
[00:23:09] Mike: Exactly.
[00:23:10] Claire: Keep us, keep us smiling, keeping us feeling like there's new stuff out there.
[00:23:15] Mike: Yep. So let's conclude with what's the right business model for a creative agency of the near future? Yeah, we talked about that blend of cockpit and orchestration and engine and you can talk about whatever you like in that.
'cause business model's quite a broad phrase, but what do you think is the new business model going forward?
[00:23:32] Claire: It's a great question and I loved, by the way, your report is fantastic and I think Thank you. Your at the beginning for. CEOs is one that everybody should obsess over. And if you're not talking to your leadership team, you are bored about it.
Get round a table very, very quickly to go through that checklist. But I think it's a question that does show, obviously how leaders are now thinking, and I think it takes me back to an event that we ran a couple of years ago around AI versus authentic. Intelligence. It was only a morning we, it could have been days worth of content.
But ultimately we know that AI is going to deliver speed scale, great at pattern recognition and predictive optimization, but that authentic intelligence, the human part can deliver, the empathy, can get deliver the context. Importantly, responsibility, because I don't think we are there yet either with regards to ethics and responsibility on.
On how we're using AI because it's moving absolutely pace that there aren't necessarily rules of the game that are clear yet. And we know that again, through working with the IPA lawyers, you know, everyone's still trying to wrestle with actually, how do we own this thing? How do we, how are we responsible with it?
So I think our key principle is AI should amplify the human intelligence, but never replace it. And I think that, you know, we need to continue to lean in. You know, so practical framing for us and for our clients is continue to lean in, explore, iterate, optimize where we can. And we are absolutely using AI tools to do that, but we remain accountable for bringing the meaning, bringing the cultural impact, finding that brand truth and thinking about long-term consequences.
So not just planning for. Tomorrow, next week, the following quarter, planning for longer term and being the the steady human hand, that helps our brands guide the way, because ultimately where we bring the edge is. That wonderful word of craft is that wonderful point that we have, which is judgment. So you go back to, there's so much more we can do now with these brilliant tech and AI advancements around judgment and measurement, but it's that taste.
Yes. You know, so craft won't disappear. I actually think it will become more and more valuable. It moves upstream.
[00:25:45] Mike: I think it will. I think you're absolutely right. Yeah. I think of that craft and, and the ability for, you know, when you're talking to brands, talking to your clients, talking to the CMO, talking to the CEO, talking to the CFO, they need growth.
Yeah. They need profitable growth.
[00:26:00] Claire: Yeah.
[00:26:00] Mike: And I think, what if I'm being a. Uh, blunt and bold. I think what agents, some agencies have failed to grasp over the years is being a growth advisor in a market whereby you've got channel proliferation across organic and paid and social and influencer, and being that holistic growth advisor, that's a critical role and it's a danger, I think that agencies can be too narrow in their thinking around their specialism as opposed to.
The brand needs growth and they need to know how to, to deliver that growth in the most risk weighted way. Yeah. What are your just thoughts on that?
[00:26:41] Claire: Well, going back to your question just moments ago, I think your cockpit orchestration engine model is spot on because it gives a framework for agencies to think about how they then approach the future.
So cockpit is all about the client experience, the insight, and the leadership. Really high value stuff that includes business understanding, giving them some really clear strategic counsel and creative direction and built on relationship and trust.
[00:27:09] Mike: Yep.
[00:27:09] Claire: The orchestration part of it absolutely demands kind of high judgment coordination, but, and it's gonna be a core skill.
For the agencies for the future because it's understanding how we manage those AI tools and platforms and partners and understanding the trade offs we think we should make.
[00:27:28] Mike: Yes.
[00:27:28] Claire: You know, the agency's job isn't to do everything. It's to make everything make sense.
[00:27:34] Mike: Yeah.
[00:27:35] Claire: And I think more and more brands, obviously are looking for agencies to help 'em do that.
And then as you say, the engine execution part of it. Is automated and it will continue to get, it
[00:27:44] Mike: will more
and
[00:27:45] Claire: more automated. So not overpricing the engine because actually there's so much now that
[00:27:52] Mike: exactly
[00:27:52] Claire: can deliver efficiency. 'cause ultimately if we overprice it, that will ERO trust and you won't have client.
[00:27:58] Mike: Exactly right.
[00:27:59] Claire: Interestingly though, I think one thing we're still seeing actually in RFIs is rate card. People are still looking at rate cards.
[00:28:05] Mike: Oh God,
it
[00:28:08] Mike: won't go away.
[00:28:09] Claire: No. They're looking at rate cards and asking for rate cards. But then the other question is, but how you then using AI to deliver efficiently.
[00:28:17] Mike: Exactly.
[00:28:19] Claire: Everyone is still tussling with it. I think they're how they're asking agencies now to show up to deliver kind of value.
[00:28:26] Mike: And bluntly, Claire. Um, procurement, I think are a bit conflicted at the moment. On the one hand, they like the the rate card model. They know it, they like it. And they can also apply a lot more pressure now because they know the agencies are using AI for efficiency.
So part of the procurement world is, well, if want deliver some savings, I can push harder because I know you're more efficient. But the flip side of the coin is that procurement also want to work with their internal business partners to drive business outcomes. So they want to buy from an agency outcomes.
They want an agency to have some skin in the game. They want it to drive performance. So the And the two are different. Yeah. One's buying activities, one's buying outcomes. They're different, but they want both, but they can't have both bluntly, and that will start to adapt and change as well.
[00:29:17] Claire: And I think, you know, everybody in this world is still tussling with what it actually means.
And that's why I think your report was so timely, and as you say, the contributions that people have made to it are evident. Yeah. But this is such a, I mean, we could probably talk about this for days, couldn't we?
[00:29:32] Mike: Yes,
[00:29:33] Claire: I know. Certainly one on one will probably continue to talk about, we.
[00:29:37] Mike: Yeah, definitely.
Yeah. Claire, it's been amazing. Thanks ever so much for joining me. What are your kind of takeaways, just like one or two things that if you were listening to this on the, in the car, way to school, way back from school, way to work, what would you want to kind of be thinking about as the the two takeaways?
[00:29:52] Claire: Well, for me, I feel very, very competent in one respect because, um, why I got into this industry was because. Um, I love building relationship well. I love the creative, I love working with creative people, but I love building relationships, and as I said, I think that AI advancements allows us to do what humans are really good at.
Which is feeling emotion, which is looking people in the eye and building good, trusted partnerships. And so actually I hope this gets back to, you know, go and see your clients go and have a coffee with them. Go and sit around their boardroom tables and start building connection back. 'cause that is something that will always.
Be a core strength of, of us as humans. But I think absolutely what your report has demonstrated, and I have no, I gave some advice earlier on, which is if you're not talking to your board and your leadership team about that checklist that you've got in the piece that you, you wrote, do you know that should be something that we obsess over as agency leaders because it's, it's moving at a rate of knots where we are here today.
Won't be the same next week or the week after.
[00:31:01] Mike: Exactly.
[00:31:01] Claire: So you constantly think about what is your, um, what is your uniqueness? What are clients buying from you? What have, what have your client health checks told you in the past? Yeah. Where your key strengths are. Because actually to your point, if you've relied a lot on engine profits.
[00:31:16] Mike: Yep,
[00:31:17] Claire: that is no more. Um, so how do we leverage what we do and have a point of view on that and help guide both our agencies through it, but also hold our client's hand in doing so too. So don't wait for procurement to come to you. Be much more front footed with how you are leveraging the new tech and, and AI advancements to build efficiencies where clients can then show return on investment to their board.
[00:31:42] Mike: Brilliant. Clara, I can't think of a better place to end the episode. It's been amazing having you. Thank you for joining me. Where can people find out more about you?
[00:31:50] Claire: So best place is probably LinkedIn or do go and visit our website. So it's Southport, um, agency. Um, go, go and find us. But yeah, um, hit me up on LinkedIn is probably the best place to go, but it's been a real pleasure.
Thank you so much for inviting me. Feel very honored.
[00:32:04] Mike: Thoroughly enjoyed it, Claire, it's been a great, great conversation. Thanks.
[00:32:07] Claire: No problem.
[00:32:08] Mike: Thanks for listening to Higgle, the B2B Sales Club podcast series with your host Mike Lander. Please subscribe so that you'll catch all the next episodes.