Why You Need Awareness, Attention, and Action to Power Up Your Pitches with Kevin Kelly

00:00 - Kevin (Guest)
If you're not getting the results you want. Trust me, presence is a massive, massive part of closing sales. Do I like and trust you? That's why people buy. Are you relatable? That's why people buy, so that'll tell you. Hmm, could be something wrong here.

00:15 - Mike (Host)
My name's Mike Lander and you're listening to Higgle, the B2B sales club podcast, where we bring you actionable insights about sales, RFPs, negotiations and difficult procurement discussions from sales leaders, brand leaders and procurement leaders. Please subscribe to get updates when new episodes are released. Kevin, thanks ever so much for joining me on Higgle, the B2B Sales Club podcast. It's great to have you as a guest.

00:43 - Kevin (Guest)
Thank you so much, Mike. Glad to be here.

00:45 - Mike (Host)
Looking forward to this, as always. So who are you, what do you do, and what's your favorite song, and why so?

00:52 - Kevin (Guest)
a lot of questions. First one, I think I know.

00:56 - Mike (Host)
Kevin, if you get the first one wrong, it might be a short podcast.

01:02 - Kevin (Guest)
So yeah, Kevin Kelly, I guess I'd be termed as a speaker and author, and over the past 30 years I've been speaking around the world on motivation, sales and leadership. And favorite song yeah, there's a song that's hardwired into my system and that is what a Wonderful World from Louis Armstrong.

01:20 - Mike (Host)
Louis Armstrong.

01:21 - Kevin (Guest)
Yeah, just recently I've got to tell you I have a massive fear of heights. I was speaking in Morocco and one thing that, again, I always challenge myself whenever I fear. So I went hot air ballooning and as we were ascending and it was like an elevator, which was amazing. What did they put on in the background? But what a wonderful world.

01:41 - Mike (Host)
And I was going, oh, wow, yeah, so there you go, so why is that your favorite song?

01:45 - Kevin (Guest)
I suppose. Obviously the words are amazing, the musicality, all that is perfect. But it's probably anchored into my system. Actually, years ago I did a course in Australia. Part of the course I had to beg on the streets, just as a completion aside, which was incredible. But every day they played the song what a Wonderful World and every day they finished with the song what a Wonderful World. So it's like a bit like Pavlov's theory. It's anchored into my system. So every time I hear that song it brings me back to the great memories, australia, etc.

02:17 - Mike (Host)
So that's the honest answer Brilliant and also the people that you meet, reminds you of the relationships you've formed Amazing experience great friendships and great lessons learned, which always happens. Exactly right. So let's get into the questions and the topics. So we're going to talk and explore your three A's framework, ie, awareness, attention and action, and how it applies to sales. So, firstly, what are the three A's, what do they stand for, and then let's get into each of them with some stories to illustrate the points.

02:47 - Kevin (Guest)
Okay. So the first A is for awareness. Ultimately, we're talking here about self-awareness, but we're also talking about the awareness of who's in the room and who you're negotiating with An interesting aside, of course. Self-awareness was described by Stanford Business Advisory Committee as the most important attribute a leader should develop. We all know that. The second A is attention. We also know that we're living in an attention deficit world.

03:11
So when I talk about attention in the context of closing sales, I'm talking about two parts Number one paying attention and how you do that. Number two, how to get attention by creating a compelling narrative. And the third, which we stumble on quite a lot, is action, taking action. I believe that in the context of closing sales, in the context of any part of our life, it's great to have a North Star, a dream, and to pursue that. So that's one. And the second thing is that part of that dream is that you have to develop resilience, because there will be potholes on the way, and how to deal with that and how to make that call again and how to continue making those calls rather than just making one call, getting a no and throwing in the towel, when you need at least six in the first place.

03:55 - Mike (Host)
So let's start talking about each one. I'm sure AI would call it unpacking or delving into, but as we're real people, we won't say that.

04:04 - Kevin (Guest)
Yeah, we can avoid that.

04:06 - Mike (Host)
If we can avoid that at all costs, that'd be great. Let's talk about the first A, the awareness bit. In sales terms, what does it mean?

04:13 - Kevin (Guest)
So basically, in very simple terms, it means you know how you show up in front of a person. If you look at, you know better than most. Mike. If you look at most of the sales that we heard talks about developing your pipeline. I think the close rate the industry close rate they make out, is somewhere between 20 to 29%. I think we need to develop our presence a little bit more than our pipeline. We're losing deals because of our presence.

04:37
So self-awareness means that you know how you're showing up in front of people and I've seen it in hundreds and hundreds of situations right across the globe. The salesperson was completely unaware of how they showed up and was unaware, therefore, why they weren't closing deals or building relationships. So it's about how you show up. The second part of awareness, of course, is a great skill, not just in speaking, it's in sales as well is managing the room. So you've got to know what's happening in front of you. You've got to understand all these little nuances, changes in body languages, changes in voice projection, change in the energy in the room and know what to do as a result of it. So that would be awareness in a nutshell.

05:16 - Mike (Host)
So let's go into the first bit. So there's two bits there. Obviously, Awareness of how you show up. So if someone's driving in the car, maybe they're taking their kids or they're going to work as a salesperson, what does that mean in terms of knowing how you show up? How would you prepare to show up correctly as opposed to incorrectly and therefore be more aware?

05:35 - Kevin (Guest)
Okay, so I suppose the first challenge is and just to, if I can share this to be slightly controversial as such.

05:42 - Mike (Host)
Excellent, we like that, kevin. Definitely slightly controversial as such. Excellent, we like that?

05:44 - Kevin (Guest)
Kevin, definitely. Well, there's been lots of studies done on self-awareness, one particularly by Tasha Yurok, who has E-U-R-I-C-H, who has done thousands of interviews on this, and she basically posed the question to people are you self-aware? And 95% of a very big sample size said I am self-aware. She then went and asked the same question of their colleagues, their bosses, their close friends. Unfortunately, we know that the car crashes wouldn't be coming at the end of this 15% of people were self-aware based on their knowledge.

06:20
Yes. So that's really important to say and it's not been controversial for controversial sake. It is, and I'm sure, if both of us discussed it off air and based on all the thousands of salespeople that we've talked to and communicated with, okay, 15% is probably on the low side, but it's certainly not 95%. Anyway, I suppose you know when you're brought in by a company, by a director or a manager or the HR director, and they give you the field of play and tell you what it's like, they always exaggerate how good they are. That is the deck. So I've seen it firsthand myself. So you get into the important question, which is what can a person do?

07:01 - Mike (Host)
Well, first of all, kevin, so you've made me think about something. So that self-awareness really interesting. If someone said to me how self-aware are you, Mike, I think the same would happen. I'd be like I think I'm pretty self-aware, I think. But then if you talk to my family or you talk to my friends, or the number would be a lot lower, like maybe, hopefully, hopefully half, but maybe less. What it made me think was I was doing a recording yesterday and really interesting guy, we were talking about presentation skills and when you're showing up to an audience or even if you're doing a one-on-one, if I'm waiting to speak, so you're saying things and I'm just going, I've got something in my head, I'm going to wait until I can speak. In that moment we're no longer self-aware, we're self-consumed because we don't care about the other person's thoughts, comments, insights. We're just waiting to say what it is in our head. Is that part of the problem with self-awareness?

07:56 - Kevin (Guest)
100%, because this is about back to managing the room. Okay, let me give you another story that links completely into that. So when I go into a room and let's say you have 50, 100 salespeople, or whatever it may be, I see the exact same pattern in every room, pretty much across cultures. Okay, and so the story goes like the following so, just to deal with yours first, so that you don't think I'm going on the side, I will probably know that you're getting ready to pounce from your body language as opposed to listening, right, okay, so that's the important thing. So, therefore, I'm the customer and I think I should be the center of attention. I think I should be the star of the show, and I'm watching Mike, and Mike is ready to jump like a dog, he's moved forward in the seat, he's ready to give his piece of wisdom. But you know, I don't really want his piece of wisdom. I want to be the star of the show. So, but let me tell you, because I've watched this over now 30, 30 plus years, and so the real kind of headline that's easily memorized is I was able to predict who'd turn up at a coffee break beside each other, based on watching a group for half an hour 45 minutes. Why? You'll know why in a minute.

09:08
So the first thing is I go in and I speak. I'm the only thing that changes in this room okay, everybody. So I always reckon that if people change, that's because of my input, because it's the same room and I'm the speaker that's come in. Okay, that's just. That might be a bit harsh, but that's the way I work it. So, assuming for a minute, I've watched people's body language and I've established their baseline. I know what they normally do. Now we know that, in the context of meeting somebody for the first time, that's not going to be perfect, but let's just assume in this case it is perfect. All right. And so what I do after noticing their baseline I might have noticed this with the other speaker, et cetera is then I look for changes. But there's a common pattern that happens. The first part of the pattern is you see somebody sitting very comfortable and I start talking and all of a sudden you see what I call seat gymnastics going on.

10:04
So you had somebody that's folding their arms, unfolding their arms, crossing their legs, uncrossing their legs, shifting their body on the seat, etc. So I'll take note of that. That's number one. So the next thing that happens is really interesting. You will see the exact same person. In this case, I can remember vividly the story of a person that was at the back of the audience. So all of a sudden, you'll see them looking around and what they're looking for to save time on this is they're looking for a buddy, because we talked off air about confirmation bias. This is exactly what they need in this context. They need to see somebody who is also uncomfortable, right, okay. So this person in this context was looking around. As it turns out, there was 25 people in the room At that time. They seemed quite engaged, so that was a problem. He didn't have a buddy. So then people go on to the third stage. This is a bit like the pouncing stage, so they have already, you know, shifted under siege. The second stage is I'm looking for a buddy. There's no buddies at the moment. Other people are engaged. So the third thing is they start looking through you, not at you. There is a very distinct difference, and most of us would know that when you're with an audience, one is like a vacant stare through you, the other is, you know, easy eye contact. You'd notice the difference. So that's their play of pretending they're engaged. You got that. So that pattern has played out in just about every room I've ever been in. Okay, but I'm just going to pull that together.

11:35
In one story I was in it was actually in Cork and I was asked by a multinational to assess their directors. The HR director said to me I'd like you to tell me where is the problem amongst our group? They're flown in from around the world into Cork. Always remember it. Basically, I go into the seminar room setting up Long ball. This person comes in early, maybe 20 minutes earlier, walks past me, goes past me, put his hands up on the podium and looks around and goes. I could do this. So I just took note of that. I didn't say Anthony Went by, didn't say goodbye on the way out.

12:10
But then, when we started the session, this, that exact pattern I was talking about, happened in the back row. So remember seat gymnastics, followed by looking around for a friend, followed by pretending he was listening. So I told the HR director. I will tell you where your problems are at the first break. So at the first break, the HR director was coming towards me and the guy from the back row who had gone through all the patterns sprinted by him to come up to me, put his hand out, took my hand and says you are the greatest speaker I have ever heard in my life. And for emphasis he said it again you are the greatest speaker. Now you can imagine. We know each other well enough to know what was going on in my head, exactly as in. You are a complete liar, but that was fine. So the HR director says to me okay, and tell me where's the problem, kevin. And I says you have two problems. Number one I talked about the guy that is handling the podium. I said look your hand around him, he'll be okay. But I says you have a person who is a liar, who probably brings people on board when there's a problem within the company. And if you were to ask me, would I keep him or get rid of him, based on my interactions with him, I would get rid of him.

13:25
The HR director's face was getting redder and redder and then he went okay, who? And I mentioned the guy that said I was the greatest speaker in the world. And the guy went, oh, gasped with relief and he says do you know? We've opened up every door and window upstairs hoping that guy will jump and we cannot get rid of him. And my point is similar to you pouncing with your great contribution that's about to follow. I can read that, everybody can read that. So also can they read when you're playing fake and pretending you're listening when you're not. And here's the key message of this. This is all about awareness. But if you're aware enough as well managing the room, you know exactly what's happening in the audience. No-transcript.

14:12 - Mike (Host)
I'm sure anyone that's driving is going. So what do you do about it? So what happens? What would you recommend? It's a great, great example.

14:19 - Kevin (Guest)
Thank you. So I'll give you one very easy thing they can do. What I do every year is I have a values map. You can get a values chart just online anywhere. Or if they really want one and they can't find one, send it to me, get to me on LinkedIn and I'll send them one. And what I do then is I send that out to 25 people and I ask the following question I say tell me who I am, based on our interactions over the years, et cetera. I continue to get the exact same values back. I think that that will give them a really good insight into who they are and what their DNA is, which, remember, drives their behavior. So that's one big piece.

14:57
The second piece is to just create your counter club, a counter club of clients, both clients you work with and have been successful, and clients that you still have and should have a token relationship with, even though you haven't sold yet and ask the question. You know, ask the question, get feedback. That's the important thing. Of course, the third angle is becoming more aware and taking time out. Taking time out to understand who you are, what your motivations are, and you'll soon get a real good picture, but that's a little bit longer. If you want the short-term fix to this, start a candor club. Ask the questions of the people around you, both the positives and the negative, and get real feedback. The questions of the people around you, both the positives and the negative, and get real feedback, just like what Tasha Urich did, and go from there. And, of course, the other thing I know I'm giving you loads of examples, but if you're not successful in sales, that may be part of the reason.

15:47 - Mike (Host)
If you're not getting the results you want.

15:49 - Kevin (Guest)
Trust me, presence is a massive, massive part of closing sales. Do I like and trust you? That's why people buy. Are you relatable? That's why people buy. So that'll tell you. Hmm, could be something wrong here.

16:01 - Mike (Host)
So if we're talking about kind of bigger sales deals so the kind of like you know, 50k plus, which any company of any size, you'll think twice before you spend that kind of money. And in complex buying environments where you've got multiple stakeholders, where you need to get them aligned. I've spoken to a lot of salespeople about this and one of the things that comes across obviously is salespeople like building relationships. They think they're very good at relationship building. I'm like that's great.

16:25
Okay, what emphasis do you think is placed on the technical bit of what you're selling versus your ability to relate, your ability to be a human that they want to talk to? Quite, a lot of people say you know, probably 80% is the technical bit and 20% is the relationship bit. My observations with buyers is that's not true. When we get to the technical bit and I can say, as a procurement buyer, my job is to find three organizations that can do what we need to do Technically. They're all capable. That's part of my job, because now we have choice. So how do we decide? Well, actually it's about how you behave with us, how you engage, how you challenge our thinking, the way that you challenge our thinking, your ability to have a discussion with us, not to get to the right answer, but to find out how, together, we'll get to the right answer. Is that part of this?

17:15 - Kevin (Guest)
Yes. So, like as you were telling me what they thought the previous guys, I'm 100% with you on this, not agreeing because you're the host, agreeing because that's what the way I've lived my life last 35 years Right, there's a few things that again, let's go left to field on this, because there's other little things that I think are really important to say at the moment as well. The BHB field, of course, has changed dramatically. Obviously, as you say, there's a big decision board. It's not one-to-one, et cetera, but there's other things. I just want to add to this by way of adding.

17:47 - Mike (Host)
So this is the context of B2B selling, correct?

17:50 - Kevin (Guest)
At this moment in time, 84% of B2B sales, according to Harvard Business School and Forrester, begin with a referral. Yeah, 70% of people and organizations have done the journey. 70% of their journey sorry has been completed before they pick up that phone. So the first thing I'd like to say, and the important point that I talk to companies, is are you in the conversation? That's the most important thing, and so then let's work back to this, which mirrors what you've just said.

18:18 - Mike (Host)
So let's just pause a second. Kevin, please, are you in that conversation 100%? If you receive a brief or an RFP and you've had no contact with that organization, be real as salespeople. Find a way of turning it down professionally while staying in the game. Because you're not currently in the game, you're making up the numbers because you weren't part of that dialogue. Sorry, kevin, carry on Completely with you on that.

18:43 - Kevin (Guest)
That's a brilliant point to emphasize, because I think it's incredibly important. And if you didn't look at those two stats, you didn't have to work backwards and you ask yourself then is how do I get in that conversation?

18:54 - Mike (Host)
Exactly, and when do I get in that conversation? How long before some kind of buying decision is going to be made Do you need to be in that conversation?

19:04 - Kevin (Guest)
Yeah, 100%. And so for me to get in that conversation, it's going to come back to relationships. So I actually always talk about not building customer relationships, building friendships, and I've been doing that for years, but I've now expanded that those friendships have to become source of referrals and raging advocates. So if I'm a sales manager, if I'm an MD listening to this, or if I'm a salesperson wondering how do I get the numbers off, I'll give you a simple one Be a boer, b-o-e-r, build on existing relationships. That's really, really important, not just for to tap the untapped potential, but you need to look at all the relationships you have at the moment and say, okay, where are they status wise, how can I do better? So, how can I do better? You need to exceed expectations. You need to think differently 100% about the relationship. And one of the things that I always talked about. For example and it's even easier now in the age of AI, but it's still noted by companies you need to be their marketing information officer. You need to be looking at a piece of research that you've seen that's relevant to your customer and, instinctively and intuitively, you're going forward. You know to the customer and they see that you're going outside the nine dots. I have a great story to share on B2C, if I could. Yeah, of course, but there is a great takeaway again for companies that they could use based on this. But years ago I interviewed for my last book a certain professional. I'm going to just describe how he has laid out his service. This person is the most profitable person in their niche. But it's amazing.

20:42
So you come into the car park, you go to the door, you see a gold-plated sign buy appointment. Only knock on the door. The minute the door opens, your eyes immediately are focused on this big cappuccino machine and the smell of freshly baked buns engulf your senses. You're allowed to interrupt and tell me when you know where I am. So anyway, the lady comes as it turns in this case, and says, oh hello, mr Kelly, and brings you into a room Now don't let your imagination go too much and you sit in this room where it's basically a lounge and you can read magazines that are in date, which we know is transformative in the current time because we're about three years out of date. You can drink tea from beautiful old China cups and you just relax before a knock comes to the door and the person sits down with you and tells you look, what we're going to do today is this than the other.

21:38
You walk down the corridor and at the bottom of the corridor is a big, huge mural, an amazing mural, a very soothing mural. You turn to your left and you sit in your chair. This is the chair of the most profitable dentist in Australia. He's a guy called Paddy Lund, p-a-d-d-i-l-u-n-d. So you start asking yourself questions like this oh my God, coffee bones.

22:04
What he did and this is the takeaway and I know you love your takeaways I think this is a brilliant takeaway. If I can say this for your audience what he has done is he has looked at every moment of truth, every interaction between himself and the client, and he has managed and tried to maximize its impact. And so what he did was he looked at all the top service organizations in Australia, including the Apple Genius Bar, including the top restaurants, including his local church, and he brought all the highlights of those and brought them into the practice. And of course, you might wonder why coffee and thing? Well, I can tell you I cannot stand dentists. Unfortunately, I don't have the turkey meat. Unfortunately, the thought of going to it does increase my stress levels. And when you open the door and smell coffee, immediately you're transported to a different place. So he's actually de-stressing you all along the way before you sit in the chair.

23:06
I think ingenious. But forget about what I think. The market loves it and he's the most profitable dentist in his niche. Now the question is can you, as a company, look at your moments of truth with the customer and in any ways do anything with them? I was just speaking yesterday and I'm a great believer. Can you guarantee parts of the service? Can you say so, just to differentiate yourself? But moving back to your point, we've got to differentiate ourselves, give something different, make it more memorable. So we are in the conversation.

23:36 - Mike (Host)
Exactly, and so I spoke to a guy called Uli Appelbaum the day on the podcast. He's a brand strategist and he talks about three things. One was about niche have a niche. Second was about being distinctive and the third was about being human. When he said be distinctive, quite interesting. You don't have to be truly differentiated, ie in the meaning of the word, which is you're in effectively a market of one, because these days that's virtually impossible. You know, unique selling proposition, unique Very hard these days to be unique, if not impossible. But being distinctive, everyone can be distinctive for all sorts of reasons and his research brand research that he did pointed towards actually those organizations that are distinctive, stand out, tend to get bought more because people remember, because you're part of the conversation and you can't get that thing out of your head. You can't get the coffee and the buns out of your head. Whatever it might be, something sticks.

24:31 - Kevin (Guest)
Yep, 100%, and we have to be distinctive or we have whatever way you want to put it. We have to bring something different to the table. So we are in that conversation and I think that's really important in B2B sales, without a doubt, and you're absolutely right. If the RFP has arrived and you're not in the conversation, well, you are just probably a form of it.

24:51 - Mike (Host)
You're making up the numbers Exactly so conscious of time as well, kevin. So we've got two other A's. Just give me a bit about attention and action. So what's for a salesperson? Why is that so critical? What does it mean?

25:06 - Kevin (Guest)
So I mean we are living in an attention deficit world. I cannot emphasize enough. I start every keynote with it.

25:14
The power of showing up in the person's life is phenomenal.

25:18
I think I spoke to you about this off air, but it's just to make people very aware of it. If we did the stats on the breakdown of the population worldwide at the moment, you would come up with one absolute, definite findings the most, at least one in three people that you're speaking to are vulnerable at some level, and showing up and being fully present with that person is the ultimate gift and it works amazingly not surprisingly in sales as well that you're there, you're not ready to pounce, you're there, you're listening. And the interesting thing is and I want to this is the power of attention in one sentence, because I'm clear on your time limits. This is the power of attention in one sentence because I'm clear on your time limits. Many people ask me because I've been involved across industries, from ambulances to crystal to working with Microsoft worldwide across industries, and I've been fairly successful in selling, and people ask me tell me that as quickly as possible in one sentence and I say no problem, Sell people, back their product.

26:15 - Mike (Host)
Explain.

26:15 - Kevin (Guest)
So, no matter who or what I was selling and when I started off in the construction industry, believe it or not I went from Ireland to Derbyshire selling concrete mixers very glamorous thing to do followed by skid steer loaders. But I'd go out to two of the higher places and I'd basically show the product. I'm kind of simplifying this. I'd show them the product and they'd come back and say, okay, it's not great, nothing major different about it. You know it really needs A, b and C. So I thanked them for their time and three months later I'd come back to them and say Mike, look, you know we had a chat there three months ago. You talked about the product. You gave me some great feedback. Just wanted to show you the product again. It includes two of the things you talked about selling them their product because now they're invested in it. So, similarly, one of the great and important things that somebody has got to do when they're telling their story in a sales situation if they want to close sales, you have to connect your stories to theirs.

27:16
That's the most important part of it. No one actually cares about your story. Frankly speaking, they want to know how do you solve their pain points and how do you deliver ROI to them. They don't care that you're 100 years old or 50 years. How do you solve their pain points. That's what they care about. And so you tell them that. You tell them a story that Mer is theirs, who had the exact same pain point. You add, on top of that, social proof and examples of other successful companies you worked with, and then you add your little bit of unique sauce. What's unique or distinctive, as we talked about, that nobody else has in the marketplace. That's the art of storytelling all in one. It's not once upon a time, it's not the hero's journey, it's not the Pixar story, it is LMAM-A-O not laugh my ass off. It's listen murder story. Add authority and throw in your secret sauce of originality and that's how to tell a story.

28:13 - Mike (Host)
That's very, very, very well put. I'll give you a one-liner that I was taught in 1998. And I still use it today and it still works. Which is my job when I'm selling is to get their fingerprints on our solution.

28:29 - Kevin (Guest)
Oh brilliant, oh nice one. Yeah, I like that one. I'll use, I'll accredit you.

28:35 - Mike (Host)
Yeah, that's very kind of you. Use it as you see fit.

28:38 - Kevin (Guest)
And it stuck with me.

28:39 - Mike (Host)
Yeah, 25, 27 years. My job is to go. What's your problem? To your point? Simple stuff, 27 years. My job is to go. What's your problem? To your point? Simple stuff. What's your problem? What's the impact you're looking for? What are the challenges you've got currently in getting there? What solution could be designed together that solves that problem, that allows me to start working with you to address that problem and deliver the outcome? And then I don't send a proposal, I send a discussion document because it's a discussion we're going to have together. And then I say to them could you add to the discussion document because it's a discussion we're going to have together? And then I say to them could?

29:07 - Kevin (Guest)
you add to the discussion document Excellent, that's great language. Yeah, but that's the way it is. It's the same thing, isn't it?

29:11
Like you know, as I said, all I do and what I talk about is closing sales, but you know that comes with government health warning, because there's no such thing as closing sale. To me, sales is just a conversation. It's an interactive discussion that hopefully will end up in a win-win. So I've never felt under pressure in my life. You know, some you win, some you lose. Obviously, thank God, the hit rate's better. You know it's good, but nonetheless it's a conversation. It is not really a presentation.

29:38 - Mike (Host)
So let me ask you two last things, conscious of time. Your time I want to be careful of. I had a conversation a while ago about a commit number. So in the sales there's a thing you know. The sales director says so what's our commit for the year, for the month, for the quarter, and the sales team's expected to go. We commit to half a million dollars. Great, so we're going to hit half a million. It's absolutely bonkers. I can't force a buyer to close. I can merely work at the pace they're working at and help them along the way towards getting a deal done. What am I going to do as a salesperson? Go, oh, I need to accelerate that deal. Let me go and see if I can make it go faster. My experience is you can't do that. Just what are your thoughts before we close?

30:19 - Kevin (Guest)
Okay. So I'll give you two thoughts on that. Exactly what you said. You can't go any faster, you know.

30:41
But I will say one thing that I do like, just as because we're now coming to action. I do think one thing that drives okay. So something that drives my presence is very. I either got a D in English in my leaving cert. I either got a D in English in my junior cert. I loved it, I bought into it full whack. That gives you a different presence. When you're with buyers they feel that excitement, that joy, that energy, that enthusiasm.

31:01
So I do agree with the concept of having a goal. I also agree with the concept of that. The goal needs to be democratic, not just normal. Johnny, the sales manager says we're doing 10%, 20%. I'd like a conversation between everyone that people buy into it, like we talk about buying into the customer story, et cetera. In that particular context I would say, yeah, it's very difficult. And the other thing is this is a big part of action and taking goals is understanding that failure is part of the process and resilience is critical. I suppose an end story which kind of I think you'll somewhat enjoy.

31:38
I got my first gig from a speaker bureau after 17 years, three weeks ago, four weeks ago, 17 years. So obviously it points to resilience or stupidity, whichever side of the fence you're on. But I want to tell you what I did in those 17 years. Three contexts a year. Maybe Each one of the contexts a testimonial from where I had worked with other speaker bureaus and conferences, a new keynote, potentially a new book or research that may or may not be interesting to them, and every year the same pattern.

32:12
And my point is this is for the people that's not ready. I don't think it actually serves them to push them over the line. It doesn't. It doesn't really at all. And at the same token, you can continually go back to them. So you know, various research shows that it takes six contact points upwards before you start getting towards closing a deal and building a relationship. So you know, I work with a few companies and all they do is they go back to these guys that haven't, you know, done the deal yet, with another piece of proof. That's the strategy. Cool, no push. So yeah, I agree with you, don't push anyone you want to. Don't forget you're pushing them. That means there may be a bit of resentment, that means they still remain customers, but you're trying to bring them from customers to friends, to source of advocates or source of referrals.

32:58 - Mike (Host)
Exactly, Kevin. It's been fantastic. Give me your three takeaways. If I was a salesperson listening to this, what are your three tips to take away?

33:06 - Kevin (Guest)
So learn how to be present, understand how you show up. And the biggest investment of your life. Pay attention, kevin it's been amazing.

33:15 - Mike (Host)
Thank you very much indeed.

33:16 - Kevin (Guest)
Thanks very much.

33:17 - Mike (Host)
Kevin, where can people find out more about you?

33:19 - Kevin (Guest)
So you can find me on wwwkevinkellyunlimited all spelt out com. Or join me on LinkedIn at kevinkellyunlimited all spelled out dot com. Or join me on LinkedIn. It's at linkedinie and kevinkelly1. But there's loads of sales infographics and materials there that they can learn from that hopefully will be useful to them.

33:35 - Mike (Host)
Brilliant. Thanks, kevin, it's been amazing. Thank you, cheers. Thank you. Thanks for listening to Higgle the B2B Sales Club podcast series with your host, mike Lander. Please subscribe so that you'll catch all the next episodes.